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Revamp pricing structure; Linux

11 posts in Product Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2002-03-19 03:54:12.0Z
Matt Rogish Posted on 2002-01-13 02:53:40.0Z
From: "Matt Rogish" <matt@fanhome.com>
Subject: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:53:40 -0500
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"Enterprise" pricing is based upon total MHz -- 2GHz if I recall correctly.
Well, with Intel bringing out CPUs which are breaking the 2GHz mark I think
it's time to change that. Perhaps make it a function of total server cost,
or company size, or the like. Some of us smaller guys have more
enterprise-ish needs but very small budgets. It doesn't make sense that we
can get a nice dual proc Intel system (which is over 2GHz total) for under
$2,000 but yet ASE would cost us $25,000 per CPU!



Replication server is also way too expensive for anyone who doesn't have
deep pockets. Nowadays even the smallest web application needs to be
24/7/365. Requiring Solaris and $100,000 is too much, especially since
MySQL, MS SQL, (and PostGRES when they can get it together) have replication
built-in (even if it isn't the best, it is decent and works!).



As has been said please continue to optimize and refine ASE on the Linux
platform. Again, it's a function of cost (Intel + Linux is far, far cheaper
than Sun Solaris).



--

Matt


David Wein Posted on 2002-03-18 20:31:40.0Z
From: "David Wein" <dwein@sybase.com>
References: <#se4G59mBHA.189@forums.sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:31:40 -0600
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Article PK: 94188

ASE 12.5.0.1 includes "ASE Replicator." Not a full blown Rep server, but it
provides some of the functionality. I believe it is a freebie for now (not
sure about that though).

-Dave

"Matt Rogish" <matt@fanhome.com> wrote in message
news:#se4G59mBHA.189@forums.sybase.com...
> "Enterprise" pricing is based upon total MHz -- 2GHz if I recall
correctly.
> Well, with Intel bringing out CPUs which are breaking the 2GHz mark I
think
> it's time to change that. Perhaps make it a function of total server
cost,
> or company size, or the like. Some of us smaller guys have more
> enterprise-ish needs but very small budgets. It doesn't make sense that
we
> can get a nice dual proc Intel system (which is over 2GHz total) for under
> $2,000 but yet ASE would cost us $25,000 per CPU!
>
>
>
> Replication server is also way too expensive for anyone who doesn't have
> deep pockets. Nowadays even the smallest web application needs to be
> 24/7/365. Requiring Solaris and $100,000 is too much, especially since
> MySQL, MS SQL, (and PostGRES when they can get it together) have
replication
> built-in (even if it isn't the best, it is decent and works!).
>
>
>
> As has been said please continue to optimize and refine ASE on the Linux
> platform. Again, it's a function of cost (Intel + Linux is far, far
cheaper
> than Sun Solaris).
>
>
>
> --
>
> Matt
>
>
>


Matt Posted on 2002-03-19 03:54:12.0Z
From: "Matt" <matt@fanhome.com>
References: <#se4G59mBHA.189@forums.sybase.com> <F6h03zrzBHA.206@forums.sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:54:12 -0500
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Does that include ASE 12.5 Linux? One of my gripes, and a 'feature'
suggestion would be to put at least the same amount of effort in keeping
Linux updated as the others. It's a pain that EBFs/patches which have been
out since, oh December, are still not released on Linux yet. :argh:

But that sounds very cool and like something we could use. We're not
adverse to small amounts of downtime, and if Replicator can provide me with
a warm standby I can manually switch over the application to use the backup
until I can get the master back online. And of course if it can sync the
changes back that would be cool too, although I could always dump-and-load
(doesn't take too terribly long).

--
Matt

"David Wein" <dwein@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:F6h03zrzBHA.206@forums.sybase.com...
> ASE 12.5.0.1 includes "ASE Replicator." Not a full blown Rep server, but
it
> provides some of the functionality. I believe it is a freebie for now
(not
> sure about that though).
>
> -Dave


Sethu Posted on 2002-03-05 14:19:42.0Z
Message-ID: <3C84D3FE.AFD36178@sybase.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:19:42 -0500
From: Sethu <sethu@sybase.com>
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I checked with our prod. mgmt team on this.

actually, the enterprise pricing (for Intel boxes - NT or Linux) is based on the
number of CPUs. So no matter how fast the CPUs are, any server less than or
equal
to 4 CPUs would qualify for workplace pricing.
Only the Unix boxes had the 2 GHz limit and even will change in the
near future for machines that has 4 CPUs or less.
We always keep in mind the hardware platform pricing when
pricing products. And, as per Replication, Replication is also available on NT
and Linux and similar to ASE pricing, NT/Linux pricing is much lower (40-50% of
Unix) than ASE pricing.


Sethu

Matt Rogish wrote:
>
> "Enterprise" pricing is based upon total MHz -- 2GHz if I recall correctly.
> Well, with Intel bringing out CPUs which are breaking the 2GHz mark I think
> it's time to change that. Perhaps make it a function of total server cost,
> or company size, or the like. Some of us smaller guys have more
> enterprise-ish needs but very small budgets. It doesn't make sense that we
> can get a nice dual proc Intel system (which is over 2GHz total) for under
> $2,000 but yet ASE would cost us $25,000 per CPU!
>
> Replication server is also way too expensive for anyone who doesn't have
> deep pockets. Nowadays even the smallest web application needs to be
> 24/7/365. Requiring Solaris and $100,000 is too much, especially since
> MySQL, MS SQL, (and PostGRES when they can get it together) have replication
> built-in (even if it isn't the best, it is decent and works!).
>
> As has been said please continue to optimize and refine ASE on the Linux
> platform. Again, it's a function of cost (Intel + Linux is far, far cheaper
> than Sun Solaris).
>
> --
>
> Matt


Matt Rogish Posted on 2002-03-06 19:33:50.0Z
From: "Matt Rogish" <matt@fanhome.com>
References: <#se4G59mBHA.189@forums.sybase.com> <3C84D3FE.AFD36178@sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:33:50 -0500
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Hi Sethu,

Apparently our Sybase rep was mistaken then -- when we were looking at
purchasing new hardware we inquired about Quad Xeons and he told us that
would bump us up into Enterprise licensing (something like $25K per CPU vs.
$6K or so) which was WAY out of our price-range (considering a lease on a
quad xeon is cheap cheap cheap).

That's good information to know -- as more and more DotCom hardware goes up
for auction I see a lot of quad boxen but are forced to pass it up since ASE
licensing is much too high (or was).

--
Matt

"Sethu" <sethu@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:3C84D3FE.AFD36178@sybase.com...
> I checked with our prod. mgmt team on this.
>
> actually, the enterprise pricing (for Intel boxes - NT or Linux) is based
on the
> number of CPUs. So no matter how fast the CPUs are, any server less than
or
> equal
> to 4 CPUs would qualify for workplace pricing.
> Only the Unix boxes had the 2 GHz limit and even will change in the
> near future for machines that has 4 CPUs or less.
> We always keep in mind the hardware platform pricing when
> pricing products. And, as per Replication, Replication is also available
on NT
> and Linux and similar to ASE pricing, NT/Linux pricing is much lower
(40-50% of
> Unix) than ASE pricing.
> Sethu


Jim Egan Posted on 2002-03-07 05:32:05.0Z
From: Jim Egan <dontspam.dbaguru@eganomics.com>
Subject: Re: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:32:05 -0700
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matt@fanhome.com wrote...
> Apparently our Sybase rep was mistaken then -- when we were looking at
> purchasing new hardware we inquired about Quad Xeons and he told us that
> would bump us up into Enterprise licensing (something like $25K per CPU vs.
> $6K or so) which was WAY out of our price-range (considering a lease on a
> quad xeon is cheap cheap cheap).
>
> That's good information to know -- as more and more DotCom hardware goes up
> for auction I see a lot of quad boxen but are forced to pass it up since ASE
> licensing is much too high (or was).
>

I don't know if this will work or not, but you can try calling Sybase Sales at the 1-800-8-
Sybase number as a sanity check.
--
Jim Egan [TeamSybase]
Senior Consultant
Sybase Professional Services


Jon Smirl Posted on 2002-01-13 04:11:22.0Z
From: "Jon Smirl" <jonsmirl@yahoo.com>
References: <#se4G59mBHA.189@forums.sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:11:22 -0500
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For price sensitive customers why not use ASA on Linux instead?

Software is written by lots of programmers earning $120K/yr. Hardware is
made by machines that work for free. Hardware is always going to be cheaper
that software unless you sell 100M copies of it. At $50K an ASE license is
half the price of the programmer and you know for sure the software going to
work when you install it.

I agree that there should be some lower cost way of getting a reduced
capability replication server.

--
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@mediaone.net


Matt Rogish Posted on 2002-01-13 17:45:15.0Z
From: "Matt Rogish" <matt@fanhome.com>
References: <#se4G59mBHA.189@forums.sybase.com> <feFOPk#mBHA.190@forums.sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
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That's true -- I'd like to think we're a 'customer for life'. I can't
imagine switching (for a number of reasons) but we can't afford to get what
we need. At $50K/license you're not going to sell 100M copies. :) I'm just
saying that take the cashflow of smaller companies in to account when people
are interested in purchasing and becoming a customer for life. :) Yeah,
it's a wish and a big one (and not really something I can see happening) but
I know of at least 4 people who would be customers if it didn't cost them
$20K to get a 2 CPU internet license. Perhaps ASA would be a good
alternative as you suggest.

--
Matt

"Jon Smirl" <jonsmirl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:feFOPk#mBHA.190@forums.sybase.com...
> For price sensitive customers why not use ASA on Linux instead?
>
> Software is written by lots of programmers earning $120K/yr. Hardware is
> made by machines that work for free. Hardware is always going to be
cheaper
> that software unless you sell 100M copies of it. At $50K an ASE license is
> half the price of the programmer and you know for sure the software going
to
> work when you install it.
>
> I agree that there should be some lower cost way of getting a reduced
> capability replication server.
>
> --
> Jon Smirl
> jonsmirl@mediaone.net


Jim Egan Posted on 2002-01-14 04:18:03.0Z
From: Jim Egan <dontspam.dbaguru@eganomics.com>
Subject: Re: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:18:03 -0700
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matt@fanhome.com wrote...
> That's true -- I'd like to think we're a 'customer for life'. I can't
> imagine switching (for a number of reasons) but we can't afford to get what
> we need. At $50K/license you're not going to sell 100M copies. :) I'm just
> saying that take the cashflow of smaller companies in to account when people
> are interested in purchasing and becoming a customer for life. :) Yeah,
> it's a wish and a big one (and not really something I can see happening) but
> I know of at least 4 people who would be customers if it didn't cost them
> $20K to get a 2 CPU internet license. Perhaps ASA would be a good
> alternative as you suggest.
>

Licensing is always a PITA. I'm in the Sybase Professional Services group, not in sales.
So that means that I'm going to provided you with the best information I can, but Sybase
Sales has the last word.

The list price for an Internet Access License (as of 12/31/01) on workplace platforms
should be $4,500 per CPU. WinNT and Linux/Intel up to 4 CPU's are considered workplace.
AFAIK, this rule, for those two exceptions, supercedes the total megahertz rule.

For the purpose of this discussion it would help to know what platforms and operating
systems you are targeting.
--
Jim Egan [TeamSybase]
Senior Consultant
Sybase Professional Services


Matt Rogish Posted on 2002-01-14 13:48:42.0Z
From: "Matt Rogish" <matt@fanhome.com>
References: <#se4G59mBHA.189@forums.sybase.com> <feFOPk#mBHA.190@forums.sybase.com> <xC2NVrFnBHA.189@forums.sybase.com> <MPG.16ac09e99f4d49798b9c0@forums.sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:48:42 -0500
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"Jim Egan" <dontspam.dbaguru@eganomics.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.16ac09e99f4d49798b9c0@forums.sybase.com...
> matt@fanhome.com wrote...
> Licensing is always a PITA. I'm in the Sybase Professional Services
group, not in sales.
> So that means that I'm going to provided you with the best information I
can, but Sybase
> Sales has the last word.

Thanks for taking a look!

> The list price for an Internet Access License (as of 12/31/01) on
workplace platforms
> should be $4,500 per CPU. WinNT and Linux/Intel up to 4 CPU's are
considered workplace.
> AFAIK, this rule, for those two exceptions, supercedes the total megahertz
rule.
>
> For the purpose of this discussion it would help to know what platforms
and operating
> systems you are targeting.
> --
> Jim Egan [TeamSybase]
> Senior Consultant
> Sybase Professional Services

Linux/Intel. I supposes you could look just at the IAL, but there is of
course the support / upgrades etc. which costs some more money. I know
August 2000 we were charged around $4500/cpu for internet workplace + around
$5K for 24/7/365 support and upgrades etc.

Also re: support -- since we are workplace the bill came out to be this:
$2100 - 9-5 normal business hour support
$2300 - 24/7 support

However, there is a 'minimum' charge for 24/7 so it was bumped up to ~$4400
(somewhere in there).

It was my impression from talking to our sales guy (although he may have
been mistaken or I heard him wrong) was that for the workplace pricing it
was total MHz -- if we have 2 CPUs which break the 2GHz barrier it bumps us
to enterprise. That would make me happy if a quad box was the break over
point; but considering we already bought our hardware last year (dual 1GHz
to stay under the 2GHz barrier) it doesn't help too much until I can get
some more boxes (quad Xeons are not terribly expensive any more if we're
talking PIIIs). :D

--
Matt
P.S. Is there a way we can evaluate (time trial or whatnot) of replication
server, Linux? Not only would it be neat to try it out but some nice
experience I can tack on under my belt (installing, configuring, etc.).


Jim Egan Posted on 2002-01-14 19:43:09.0Z
From: Jim Egan <dontspam.dbaguru@eganomics.com>
Subject: Re: Revamp pricing structure; Linux
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:43:09 -0700
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matt@fanhome.com wrote...
> It was my impression from talking to our sales guy (although he may have
> been mistaken or I heard him wrong) was that for the workplace pricing it
> was total MHz -- if we have 2 CPUs which break the 2GHz barrier it bumps us
> to enterprise. That would make me happy if a quad box was the break over
> point; but considering we already bought our hardware last year (dual 1GHz
> to stay under the 2GHz barrier) it doesn't help too much until I can get
> some more boxes (quad Xeons are not terribly expensive any more if we're
> talking PIIIs). :D

I'm pretty sure that the NT platform doesn't have to adhere to the MHz calculation. Once
you go over 4 CPU's on NT, only then are you pushed into the Enterprise pricing.

> P.S. Is there a way we can evaluate (time trial or whatnot) of replication
> server, Linux? Not only would it be neat to try it out but some nice
> experience I can tack on under my belt (installing, configuring, etc.).

Sure. Just talk to your sales rep. They have the ability to order eval copies for you.
Let me know by email if that avenue doesn't work.
--
Jim Egan [TeamSybase]
Senior Consultant
Sybase Professional Services