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Why is Sybase pricing itself out of the market?

10 posts in Product Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2004-11-17 19:51:47.0Z
Kevin McGinn Posted on 2004-08-24 23:51:34.0Z
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From: Kevin McGinn
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
Subject: Why is Sybase pricing itself out of the market?
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I have worked with Sybase for nearly twenty years. But over
the last several years virtually every new feature and
function added to the server requires the purchase of an
additional license including licenses that other database
verndors do not charge for (i.e. Java in the server).

It would not be too bad if the price was a flat fee, but
charging on a per CPU basis makes it virtually impossible
for companies working on Goverment contracts where budgets
are extremely tight to use the latest and most powerful
features of the server.

Is this trend going to end before Sybase prices itself out
of the market?


FlyBean Posted on 2004-08-25 11:41:23.0Z
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
Subject: Re: Why is Sybase pricing itself out of the market?
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Kevin McGinn wrote in news:412bd486.300d.1681692777@sybase.com:

> I have worked with Sybase for nearly twenty years. But over
> the last several years virtually every new feature and
> function added to the server requires the purchase of an
> additional license including licenses that other database
> verndors do not charge for (i.e. Java in the server).
>
> It would not be too bad if the price was a flat fee, but
> charging on a per CPU basis makes it virtually impossible
> for companies working on Goverment contracts where budgets
> are extremely tight to use the latest and most powerful
> features of the server.
>
> Is this trend going to end before Sybase prices itself out
> of the market?
>

Yes, I have the feeling too. I am very strange at Sybase's market strategy.
I think this strategy will force the old clients leaving Sybase, not the
technology.

Flybean
2004.08.25


Olivier Posted on 2004-08-25 16:24:25.0Z
From: "Olivier" <ociteau-NOCANSPAM@yahoo.fr>
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I am afraid they are going the way "Ashton-Tate" did.

If you click here (after login):
http://info.sybase.com/resolution/detail.stm?id_number=20330119
you'll get this result :
"You can access Solved Cases if you have a Sybase Support Contract and are a
designated Technical Support Contact".

It used to be free.
And competitor (MS, Borland, IBM, Oracle, BEA)'s tech notes are wide open.


Jason L. Froebe [TeamSybase] Posted on 2004-08-26 02:47:38.0Z
From: "Jason L. Froebe [TeamSybase]" <jason@NOSPAMMY.froebe.net>
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Olivier wrote:

> I am afraid they are going the way "Ashton-Tate" did.
>
> If you click here (after login):
> http://info.sybase.com/resolution/detail.stm?id_number=20330119
> you'll get this result :
> "You can access Solved Cases if you have a Sybase Support Contract and are a
> designated Technical Support Contact".
>
> It used to be free.
> And competitor (MS, Borland, IBM, Oracle, BEA)'s tech notes are wide open.

this is no different than what the other vendors are doing (Oracle,
Microsoft, etc.). Just have your manager contact sybase to add you as a
support contact.

jason

--
Jason L. Froebe

"There is usually a balance between the left and the right... checks &
balances... the bane of the government but the boon of the people" -
Jason L. Froebe

http://www.froebe.net
Bookcrossing (http://www.bookcrossing.com)
WebBlog http://www.livejournal.com/users/jfroebe

TeamSybase (http://www.teamsybase.com)
ISUG member (http://www.isug.com)
Chicago Sybase Tools User Group (http://www.cpbug.com)


Download VCard jason.vcf


olivier Posted on 2004-08-26 14:48:27.0Z
From: "olivier" <ociteau-NOSPAM@yahoo.fr>
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On 25 Aug 2004 19:47:38 -0700,
in sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion

Jason L. Froebe [TeamSybase] <jason@NOSPAMMY.froebe.net> wrote:
>Olivier wrote:
>
>> I am afraid they are going the way "Ashton-Tate" did.
>>
>> If you click here (after login):
>> http://info.sybase.com/resolution/detail.stm?id_number=20330119
>> you'll get this result :
>> "You can access Solved Cases if you have a Sybase Support Contract and are a
>> designated Technical Support Contact".
>>
>> It used to be free.
>> And competitor (MS, Borland, IBM, Oracle, BEA)'s tech notes are wide open.
>
>this is no different than what the other vendors are doing (Oracle,
>Microsoft, etc.). Just have your manager contact sybase to add you as a
>support contact.

Thank you for your answer Jason.
I wish you could answer to Kevin McGinn's original post.

I cannot ask my manager for such a thing because we stopped paying for tech
support.
We did this because Sybase's tech support sucks.

Need help on EAS : the company ended up in buying IBM Websphere (much more
expensive than EAS).

On powerbuilder : I could not believe it, but they told me they could not
resolve the issue. Connecting powerbuilder to access through odbc. They use odbc
every day with ASA ! Instead of calling their colleagues they closed the case !
I made the thing work alone. UNACCEPTABLE, UNBELIEAVABLE.

ON ASE : Call Friday morning. Nothing happened until evening and they say it is
the week-end, and you need to wait monday. Hey, it is a 24*7 environnement !!!!
We have people working !

I think that ASE is technically better than Oracle.
Ever wonder why Oracle is #1 ?


Jason L. Froebe [TeamSybase] Posted on 2004-08-27 01:15:14.0Z
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Hi Olivier,

olivier wrote:

> Thank you for your answer Jason.
> I wish you could answer to Kevin McGinn's original post.
>
> I cannot ask my manager for such a thing because we stopped paying for tech
> support.
> We did this because Sybase's tech support sucks.

It is the best support I have found of the major vendors including
Oracle and IBM.

> Need help on EAS : the company ended up in buying IBM Websphere (much more
> expensive than EAS).

Not sure what you are referring to here... can you provide more detail?

>
> On powerbuilder : I could not believe it, but they told me they could not
> resolve the issue. Connecting powerbuilder to access through odbc. They use odbc
> every day with ASA ! Instead of calling their colleagues they closed the case !
> I made the thing work alone. UNACCEPTABLE, UNBELIEAVABLE.

I'm not aware of this issue.. what versions, when was this?

I do know of a few issues with connecting to access using odbc but they
either have been fixed or were corrected with the various ODBC
connection parameters.

I'm not certain whom you are referring to regarding SQL Anywhere (ASA)...

> ON ASE : Call Friday morning. Nothing happened until evening and they say it is
> the week-end, and you need to wait monday. Hey, it is a 24*7 environnement !!!!
> We have people working !

Depends on your support contract and the issue involved. If it is a
production down issue, it will go into "follow the sun" mode. If it is
not a production down issue, then it is covered in the normal work day.

> I think that ASE is technically better than Oracle.
> Ever wonder why Oracle is #1 ?

Marketing and FUD probably.

jason

--
Jason L. Froebe

"There is usually a balance between the left and the right... checks &
balances... the bane of the government but the boon of the people" -
Jason L. Froebe

http://www.froebe.net
Bookcrossing (http://www.bookcrossing.com)
WebBlog http://www.livejournal.com/users/jfroebe

TeamSybase (http://www.teamsybase.com)
ISUG member (http://www.isug.com)
Chicago Sybase Tools User Group (http://www.cpbug.com)


Download VCard jason.vcf


olivier Posted on 2004-08-27 14:19:40.0Z
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Hi Jason,

On 26 Aug 2004 18:15:14 -0700,
in sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion

Jason L. Froebe [TeamSybase] <jason@NOSPAMMY.froebe.net> wrote:
>Hi Olivier,
>
>olivier wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your answer Jason.
>> I wish you could answer to Kevin McGinn's original post.
>>
>> I cannot ask my manager for such a thing because we stopped paying for tech
>> support.
>> We did this because Sybase's tech support sucks.
>
>It is the best support I have found of the major vendors including
>Oracle and IBM.

I wish you were right.
I should have wrote that in the first place. I live in France (Europe).
Quality of tech support may be different upon the country ?

Good tech support do not give up.

>> Need help on EAS : the company ended up in buying IBM Websphere (much more
>> expensive than EAS).
>
>Not sure what you are referring to here... can you provide more detail?
Such as company name ? Sorry no.

>> On powerbuilder : I could not believe it, but they told me they could not
>> resolve the issue. Connecting powerbuilder to access through odbc. They use
odbc
>> every day with ASA ! Instead of calling their colleagues they closed the case
!
>> I made the thing work alone. UNACCEPTABLE, UNBELIEAVABLE.
>
>I'm not aware of this issue.. what versions, when was this?
PB 8.0.3. end of 2003. Bug occurs on all pb vesion.

So you know PB Jason ? I am a true PB fan, and helped a lot of people either on
Sybase's newsgroup or on mailing list.
Since this is an ASE forum, i tried to make short but my story was unclear.

>
>I'm not certain whom you are referring to regarding SQL Anywhere (ASA)...
Whom ? All Sybase's employee that are supposed to know PB.
When you take a PB course at Sybase, DBMS is always ASA.
All PB examples are with ASA. The official way of connecting PB to ASA is ODBC.
So why did it (techsupport) gave up on an PB/odbc issue, claiming they have no
experience on access?
They use ODBC every day !

I wish i could give all technical details, but we are on an ASE forum.
But i can swear on the Holy Bible that my issue was with ODBC not with Access.
I may write to you Jason or to a PB forum, as you wish.

My point is, since i could make it work alone it was not impossible.
Tech support should never give up unless it is impossible, because it is the
"last hope".
Thus my anger.

Why tech-support cannot contact the powerbuilder developer team ?

http://tinyurl.com/6zc8c


Jason L. Froebe [TeamSybase] Posted on 2004-08-28 00:44:11.0Z
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Olivier wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> On 26 Aug 2004 18:15:14 -0700,
> in sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
> Jason L. Froebe [TeamSybase] <jason@NOSPAMMY.froebe.net> wrote:
>
>>Hi Olivier,
>>
>>olivier wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Thank you for your answer Jason.
>>>I wish you could answer to Kevin McGinn's original post.
>>>
>>>I cannot ask my manager for such a thing because we stopped paying for tech
>>>support.
>>>We did this because Sybase's tech support sucks.
>>
>>It is the best support I have found of the major vendors including
>>Oracle and IBM.
>
> I wish you were right.
> I should have wrote that in the first place. I live in France (Europe).
> Quality of tech support may be different upon the country ?
>
> Good tech support do not give up.
>
>
>>>Need help on EAS : the company ended up in buying IBM Websphere (much more
>>>expensive than EAS).
>>
>>Not sure what you are referring to here... can you provide more detail?
>
> Such as company name ? Sorry no.
>
>
>>>On powerbuilder : I could not believe it, but they told me they could not
>>>resolve the issue. Connecting powerbuilder to access through odbc. They use
>
> odbc
>
>>>every day with ASA ! Instead of calling their colleagues they closed the case
>
> !
>
>>>I made the thing work alone. UNACCEPTABLE, UNBELIEAVABLE.
>>
>>I'm not aware of this issue.. what versions, when was this?
>
> PB 8.0.3. end of 2003. Bug occurs on all pb vesion.
>
> So you know PB Jason ? I am a true PB fan, and helped a lot of people either on
> Sybase's newsgroup or on mailing list.
> Since this is an ASE forum, i tried to make short but my story was unclear.
>
>
>>I'm not certain whom you are referring to regarding SQL Anywhere (ASA)...
>
> Whom ? All Sybase's employee that are supposed to know PB.
> When you take a PB course at Sybase, DBMS is always ASA.
> All PB examples are with ASA. The official way of connecting PB to ASA is ODBC.
> So why did it (techsupport) gave up on an PB/odbc issue, claiming they have no
> experience on access?
> They use ODBC every day !
>
> I wish i could give all technical details, but we are on an ASE forum.
> But i can swear on the Holy Bible that my issue was with ODBC not with Access.
> I may write to you Jason or to a PB forum, as you wish.
>
> My point is, since i could make it work alone it was not impossible.
> Tech support should never give up unless it is impossible, because it is the
> "last hope".
> Thus my anger.
>
> Why tech-support cannot contact the powerbuilder developer team ?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6zc8c

understood... I'm just stepping out to go to a movie but will respond
either later tonight or tomorrow.

jason

--
Jason L. Froebe

"There is usually a balance between the left and the right... checks &
balances... the bane of the government but the boon of the people" -
Jason L. Froebe

http://www.froebe.net
Bookcrossing (http://www.bookcrossing.com)
WebBlog http://www.livejournal.com/users/jfroebe

TeamSybase (http://www.teamsybase.com)
ISUG member (http://www.isug.com)
Chicago Sybase Tools User Group (http://www.cpbug.com)


Download VCard jason.vcf


Thomas Johansen Posted on 2004-11-17 19:51:47.0Z
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> It is the best support I have found of the major vendors
> including Oracle and IBM.

I'm sorry, I do not agree, I'm in the situation, I have been
working in the european TechSupport, and Sybase have made
one big mistake, remove the techsupport from many non
english spoken contries to UK.

The local techsupport will always have a closer contact to
the costumers, and after sybase have decided to close the
local support center, many costumers are not feeling sybase
listen to them. And many costumers are thinking leaving
sybase becourse of this. If they not already have done it.

I'm sorry to say it, but only a few years ago, Sybase could
say our support organisation is one of the best, if not the
best, that is history. The facts are the guys in TSE, PSE
etc are working there a.. of, and doing what efter they can
with the resources they have. Buts costumer want's local
support, but sybase have all ready closed the 'local'
supportscentre, Sybase are ruin the european CS&S
organisation.

It could be fun to see a survey for all the european
costumer, where questions like, would you prefur local
support center with TSE's who speak your language etc. Btw
it's funny to see how some of the distributors are doing
well in the support business, when sybase inc. / uk are not.

There is no doubt I love Sybase product and fighting to keep
then en my organisation, but Sybase is not doing it easy for
me... but good to know there still are some locals who
understand the business.


Alberto da Silva Posted on 2004-09-01 11:56:40.0Z
From: "Alberto da Silva" <Alberto.daSilva@rmb.co.za>
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Subject: Re: Why is Sybase pricing itself out of the market?
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<Kevin McGinn> wrote in message news:412bd486.300d.1681692777@sybase.com...
>I have worked with Sybase for nearly twenty years. But over
> the last several years virtually every new feature and
> function added to the server requires the purchase of an
> additional license including licenses that other database
> verndors do not charge for (i.e. Java in the server).
>
> It would not be too bad if the price was a flat fee, but
> charging on a per CPU basis makes it virtually impossible
> for companies working on Goverment contracts where budgets
> are extremely tight to use the latest and most powerful
> features of the server.
>
> Is this trend going to end before Sybase prices itself out
> of the market?

Yes I agree - too expensive - even basic functionality requires
purchase of addional licenses.

Example the ability to integrate users into Windows Active Directory Option:
Sybase ASE Enterprise Edition Security & Directory Services Option 12.5.2
$3,999/CPU

MS SQL Server 6.5 and later have this for free.

Alberto da Silva