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FW: Sybase vs. Oracle: Users speak out

6 posts in Product Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2006-08-20 04:49:24.0Z
Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase] Posted on 2006-08-18 16:10:12.0Z
From: "Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net>
Organization: Team Sybase
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Subject: FW: Sybase vs. Oracle: Users speak out
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Article PK: 97480

http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid41_gci1210703,00.html

I agree that TSQL is very limiting from a developer's point of view.
Sybase should expand it (not with the java behemoth in the database)
--
Jason L. Froebe
http://www.froebe.net/blog
http://k2p2.net
Team Sybase


Carl Kayser Posted on 2006-08-18 18:48:14.0Z
From: "Carl Kayser" <kayser_c@bls.gov>
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"Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net> wrote in message
news:44e5e664$1@forums-1-dub...
> http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid41_gci1210703,00.html
>
> I agree that TSQL is very limiting from a developer's point of view.
> Sybase should expand it (not with the java behemoth in the database)
> --
> Jason L. Froebe
> http://www.froebe.net/blog
> http://k2p2.net
> Team Sybase

I couldn't help but notice that if I tried to pursue the referenced links
then I
could not get out of searchoracle.com. Oracle even likes to lock you in on
the web!


Carl Kayser Posted on 2006-08-18 19:03:45.0Z
From: "Carl Kayser" <kayser_c@bls.gov>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
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Subject: Re: Sybase vs. Oracle: Users speak out
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"Carl Kayser" <kayser_c@bls.gov> wrote in message
news:44e60b6e$1@forums-1-dub...
>
> "Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net> wrote in message
> news:44e5e664$1@forums-1-dub...
>> http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid41_gci1210703,00.html
>>
>> I agree that TSQL is very limiting from a developer's point of view.
>> Sybase should expand it (not with the java behemoth in the database)
>> --
>> Jason L. Froebe
>> http://www.froebe.net/blog
>> http://k2p2.net
>> Team Sybase
>
> I couldn't help but notice that if I tried to pursue the referenced links
> then I
> could not get out of searchoracle.com. Oracle even likes to lock you in on
> the web!
>
>
>

Clarifications. (1) I do not have an account at searchoracle, and (2) I
could not "go back" once I clicked on "Oracle news and trends" or
"Comparing costs of Oracle on Linux, Unix, .."


A.M. Posted on 2006-08-19 06:44:32.0Z
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Subject: Re: Sybase vs. Oracle: Users speak out
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Carl Kayser wrote:
>
> I couldn't help but notice that if I tried to pursue the referenced links
> then I
> could not get out of searchoracle.com. Oracle even likes to lock you in on
> the web!

The bastards!

-am © MMVI


M. Searer Posted on 2006-08-20 04:49:24.0Z
From: "M. Searer" <nospam@nospam.com>
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try:

http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid39_gci1210021,00.html?track=NL-384&ad=560442&asrc=EM_NNL_453384&uid=2332892

it seems to be the same article

"Carl Kayser" <kayser_c@bls.gov> wrote in message
news:44e60b6e$1@forums-1-dub...
>
> "Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net> wrote in message
> news:44e5e664$1@forums-1-dub...
>> http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid41_gci1210703,00.html
>>
>> I agree that TSQL is very limiting from a developer's point of view.
>> Sybase should expand it (not with the java behemoth in the database)
>> --
>> Jason L. Froebe
>> http://www.froebe.net/blog
>> http://k2p2.net
>> Team Sybase
>
> I couldn't help but notice that if I tried to pursue the referenced links then
> I
> could not get out of searchoracle.com. Oracle even likes to lock you in on
> the web!
>
>
>


Eugene Korolkov Posted on 2006-08-18 18:20:34.0Z
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From: Eugene Korolkov <ekorolkov@davidsohn.com>
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Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
To: "Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net>
Subject: Re: FW: Sybase vs. Oracle: Users speak out
References: <44e5e664$1@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 97483

IMHO ( but not IMHO :-)),  Sybase ASE (As DB2) is based on wrong transactional model,
where isolation level implementation based on locks and as result producing mess
(from the time point of view) in  select stmt under multi-user environment
(or artificially blocking other people for read consistency under isolation level 3 and not scalable enough
in mixed OLTP/DSS environment).

Sybase just should implement snapshot isolation (to produce select result(s) (1 or 2) according to start query time
(like Oracle does, Sybase IQ does, Sybase ASA will) or/and end query time (like Sybase dump does),
NOT the something from different time points). MS SQL server 2005 already doing that eventually (took them  .
JIm Gray already actually confessed (see his article about critique of ANSI isolation levels)
that  what has been  implemented in DB2 as ANSI isolation levels implementation was wrong.

Everything else (Power of PL/SQl vs weak TSQL,  before/after row-level only stmt-level triggers vs ,  etc..),
could be discussed ONLY after fixing wrong transactional model  producing wrong results,
I think we could leave with these or ask about enhancements, but it is not so important IMHO

I am asking for years when Sybase ASE will eventually implement snapshot isolation
(which MUST be default mode in DSS/OLTP env) ? It is so simple now (just take it from MS SQL 2005) .
I think they are waiting for IBM and IBM does not care too much hiding that problem under mainframe power
and ASE is hiding that under temp.tables and pricing fluctuations..
 
Do not get me wrong,  as old russian proverb said only friend would tel you the truth.

Regards,
Eugene

Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase] wrote:

http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid41_gci1210703,00.html

I agree that TSQL is very limiting from a developer's point of view. Sybase should expand it (not with the java behemoth in the database)