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Import / Export options

6 posts in General Discussion Last posting was on 2006-11-27 13:35:37.0Z
Shao Chan Posted on 2006-11-23 10:55:15.0Z
From: "Shao Chan" <noemail@noemail.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.mbusinessanywhere.general
Subject: Import / Export options
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Article PK: 17854

Will M-Business Server ever have import/export options?

iAnywhere tells us to backup the database etc, but really all we want is to
import/export the channels, groups and users.

Why does this option not exist?

Is it that difficult to implement?

Cheers,

Shao


Rob Waywell Posted on 2006-11-23 14:01:13.0Z
From: "Rob Waywell" <rwaywell_no_spam_please@ianywhere.com>
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Article PK: 9185

What do you want to do with the Export?
What do you want to do with the Import?

From your post it sounds like you have an objective other than backing up
the system, the more information you can give us about what you are trying
to accomplish, the better we will be able to assist.

--
-----------------------------------------------
Robert Waywell
Sybase Adaptive Server Anywhere Developer - Version 8
Sybase Certified Professional

Sybase's iAnywhere Solutions

Please respond ONLY to newsgroup

EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all

To Submit Bug Reports:
http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/cx.stm?starturl=casemessage.ssc?CASETYPE=Bug

SQL Anywhere Studio Supported Platforms and Support Status
http://my.sybase.com/detail?id=1002288

"Shao Chan" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:45658c23$1@forums-1-dub...
> Will M-Business Server ever have import/export options?
>
> iAnywhere tells us to backup the database etc, but really all we want is
> to import/export the channels, groups and users.
>
> Why does this option not exist?
>
> Is it that difficult to implement?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Shao
>


Shao Chan Posted on 2006-11-23 15:26:32.0Z
From: "Shao Chan" <noemail@noemail.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.mbusinessanywhere.general
References: <45658c23$1@forums-1-dub> <4565b7b9$1@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: Import / Export options
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Article PK: 9186

Hi Rob,

Thanks for that.

1) We want to be able to setup multiple similar environments for
Development, Deployed, Sales, QA, etc with information that is similar in
each environment. So if I have an application which has 10 channels, I
don't want to be entering in the information 10 times. I just want to
export and import them. The same applies to the users. Each of the
environments might also have pre-existing information and therefore I want
to be able to import/export specific information.

2) When we upgrade in general, we try not upgrade anything that uses
databases. We simply export and import the data. As M-Business uses a
database, if the underlying database changes version, chances are that a
database upgrade will fail because most database vendors' developers do not
really test these options and just hope they work. For example, upgading
from M-Business 5.7 to M-Business 6.0 does not work. This was partially
fixed in 6.2., but in general its probably best to simply export / import
the data. Besides, doing a clean install with an import not only results in
a defragmented database, but also puts you on the same footing as a fresh
install from a bug perspective.

In many cases, once we've defined a set of information, we want to be able
to import it into any of our environments or customer's environments as a
baseline or as a subset of data which is standard.

Think of it this way, when installing SQL Anywhere 10, to get the Mobilink
tables into an SQL Anywhere 10 database, you can run a script with the
tables that are part of the SQL Anywhere 10 install, or you could do it the
M-Business way and get a backup database to restore from M-Bus or something.
Which is preferable?

Cheers,

Shao

"Rob Waywell" <rwaywell_no_spam_please@ianywhere.com> wrote in message
news:4565b7b9$1@forums-1-dub...
> What do you want to do with the Export?
> What do you want to do with the Import?
>
> From your post it sounds like you have an objective other than backing up
> the system, the more information you can give us about what you are trying
> to accomplish, the better we will be able to assist.
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------
> Robert Waywell
> Sybase Adaptive Server Anywhere Developer - Version 8
> Sybase Certified Professional
>
> Sybase's iAnywhere Solutions
>
> Please respond ONLY to newsgroup
>
> EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
> choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all
>
> To Submit Bug Reports:
> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/cx.stm?starturl=casemessage.ssc?CASETYPE=Bug
>
> SQL Anywhere Studio Supported Platforms and Support Status
> http://my.sybase.com/detail?id=1002288
>
> "Shao Chan" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
> news:45658c23$1@forums-1-dub...
>> Will M-Business Server ever have import/export options?
>>
>> iAnywhere tells us to backup the database etc, but really all we want is
>> to import/export the channels, groups and users.
>>
>> Why does this option not exist?
>>
>> Is it that difficult to implement?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Shao
>>
>
>


Rob Waywell Posted on 2006-11-24 16:21:56.0Z
From: "Rob Waywell" <rwaywell_no_spam_please@ianywhere.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.mbusinessanywhere.general
References: <45658c23$1@forums-1-dub> <4565b7b9$1@forums-1-dub> <4565cbb8$1@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: Import / Export options
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Article PK: 9187

For (1), I understand why you would want the functionality. I'll defer to
Product Management to comment on the possibility of including it in a future
release.

For (2), if you have a problem with the upgrade, you need to submit the
issue to Tech Support so that we can investigate and help you resolve it. If
you did open a case with Support on this issue and it was not resolved to
your satisfaction, then please forward me the case # and I'll review it for
you.

In any given year thousands of SQL Anywhere databases are upgraded and
we do invest a fair bit of effort in designing, implement, testing, and
documenting the upgrade process.Upgrades can be a challenge for individual
customers because they are 'one time' events, not something that is done
every day.I also know, as you do, from experience that not all products
provide well tested upgrade paths. It is certainly our intent to provide an
efficient and effective upgrade path for our software and if you do
encounter problems with your upgrade, then we want to support you through
those issues. In the case where the application has been developed by a
third party, it is also likely that you will need to involve that third
party in the upgrade process.

--
-----------------------------------------------
Robert Waywell
Sybase Adaptive Server Anywhere Developer - Version 8
Sybase Certified Professional

Sybase's iAnywhere Solutions

Please respond ONLY to newsgroup

EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all

To Submit Bug Reports:
http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/cx.stm?starturl=casemessage.ssc?CASETYPE=Bug

SQL Anywhere Studio Supported Platforms and Support Status
http://my.sybase.com/detail?id=1002288

"Shao Chan" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:4565cbb8$1@forums-1-dub...
> Hi Rob,
>
> Thanks for that.
>
> 1) We want to be able to setup multiple similar environments for
> Development, Deployed, Sales, QA, etc with information that is similar in
> each environment. So if I have an application which has 10 channels, I
> don't want to be entering in the information 10 times. I just want to
> export and import them. The same applies to the users. Each of the
> environments might also have pre-existing information and therefore I want
> to be able to import/export specific information.
>
> 2) When we upgrade in general, we try not upgrade anything that uses
> databases. We simply export and import the data. As M-Business uses a
> database, if the underlying database changes version, chances are that a
> database upgrade will fail because most database vendors' developers do
> not really test these options and just hope they work. For example,
> upgading from M-Business 5.7 to M-Business 6.0 does not work. This was
> partially fixed in 6.2., but in general its probably best to simply export
> / import the data. Besides, doing a clean install with an import not only
> results in a defragmented database, but also puts you on the same footing
> as a fresh install from a bug perspective.
>
> In many cases, once we've defined a set of information, we want to be able
> to import it into any of our environments or customer's environments as a
> baseline or as a subset of data which is standard.
>
> Think of it this way, when installing SQL Anywhere 10, to get the Mobilink
> tables into an SQL Anywhere 10 database, you can run a script with the
> tables that are part of the SQL Anywhere 10 install, or you could do it
> the M-Business way and get a backup database to restore from M-Bus or
> something. Which is preferable?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Shao
>
>
> "Rob Waywell" <rwaywell_no_spam_please@ianywhere.com> wrote in message
> news:4565b7b9$1@forums-1-dub...
>> What do you want to do with the Export?
>> What do you want to do with the Import?
>>
>> From your post it sounds like you have an objective other than backing up
>> the system, the more information you can give us about what you are
>> trying to accomplish, the better we will be able to assist.
>>
>> --
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> Robert Waywell
>> Sybase Adaptive Server Anywhere Developer - Version 8
>> Sybase Certified Professional
>>
>> Sybase's iAnywhere Solutions
>>
>> Please respond ONLY to newsgroup
>>
>> EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
>> choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all
>>
>> To Submit Bug Reports:
>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/cx.stm?starturl=casemessage.ssc?CASETYPE=Bug
>>
>> SQL Anywhere Studio Supported Platforms and Support Status
>> http://my.sybase.com/detail?id=1002288
>>
>> "Shao Chan" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:45658c23$1@forums-1-dub...
>>> Will M-Business Server ever have import/export options?
>>>
>>> iAnywhere tells us to backup the database etc, but really all we want is
>>> to import/export the channels, groups and users.
>>>
>>> Why does this option not exist?
>>>
>>> Is it that difficult to implement?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Shao
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


Shao Chan Posted on 2006-11-24 21:06:15.0Z
From: "Shao Chan" <noemail@noemail.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.mbusinessanywhere.general
References: <45658c23$1@forums-1-dub> <4565b7b9$1@forums-1-dub> <4565cbb8$1@forums-1-dub> <45672a34$1@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: Import / Export options
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Article PK: 9189


"Rob Waywell" <rwaywell_no_spam_please@ianywhere.com> wrote in message
news:45672a34$1@forums-1-dub...
> For (1), I understand why you would want the functionality. I'll defer to
> Product Management to comment on the possibility of including it in a
> future release.

Thanks for the response Rob. I believe that a lot of customers would
benefit from this feature. Many customers would expect it to be there but
just don't think its worth their time logging an enhancement request.
Because the database used by M-Business Server is embedded (i.e. for
M-Business users, they don't need to know what database is being used or how
to start/stop the database), the route forward is not for the customer to be
pointing to an existing ASA database and perform a substitute when
installing a later version.

> For (2), if you have a problem with the upgrade, you need to submit the
> issue to Tech Support so that we can investigate and help you resolve it.
> If you did open a case with Support on this issue and it was not resolved
> to your satisfaction, then please forward me the case # and I'll review it
> for you.

We did submit the issue to technical support. It was partially fixed in a
later version. There were issues from losing ODBC connections to losing
data settings with no option to load from an old database. Some of these
issues were fixed but I am unsure whether retrieving settings from an older
installation were (as I did was not working on the submitted issue myself
and the upgrade had many issues with it). However, my point is, as stated
above, in any upgrade, minor or major, at most the user should be asked
whether they wish to migrate their settings from the current installed
version. Users should always have the option to import/export. If the
underlying database changes to another database, the user should not need to
care.

> In any given year thousands of SQL Anywhere databases are upgraded and
> we do invest a fair bit of effort in designing, implement, testing, and
> documenting the upgrade process.Upgrades can be a challenge for individual
> customers because they are 'one time' events, not something that is done
> every day.I also know, as you do, from experience that not all products
> provide well tested upgrade paths. It is certainly our intent to provide
> an efficient and effective upgrade path for our software and if you do
> encounter problems with your upgrade, then we want to support you through
> those issues. In the case where the application has been developed by a
> third party, it is also likely that you will need to involve that third
> party in the upgrade process.
> Robert Waywell

I appreciate what you say Rob. All I am saying is that upgrades are and
will never be tested as fully as new installations - not by a long shot -
and providing import/export options so that users can totally uninstall the
old software and install the new software importing the settings is a lot
more desirable.

Could you also please consider that whilst this is not done on an every day
basis:
a) When we do upgrade, we upgrade all our customers wherever possible, so
this is a chore.
b) If an issue is found, by the time it is resolved, we'd have already
worked around it even if it is manually entering all the values in again.

Thanks for your responses to this thread. Adding the import/export options
would be really useful.

Cheers,

Shao


Rob Waywell Posted on 2006-11-27 13:35:37.0Z
From: "Rob Waywell" <rwaywell_no_spam_please@ianywhere.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.mbusinessanywhere.general
References: <45658c23$1@forums-1-dub> <4565b7b9$1@forums-1-dub> <4565cbb8$1@forums-1-dub> <45672a34$1@forums-1-dub> <45676cd7$1@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: Import / Export options
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> b) If an issue is found, by the time it is resolved, we'd have already
> worked around it even if it is manually entering all the values in again.
>

Issues such as this should be found during testing prior to deploying the
upgraded version to a production environment.

--
-----------------------------------------------
Robert Waywell
Sybase Adaptive Server Anywhere Developer - Version 8
Sybase Certified Professional

Sybase's iAnywhere Solutions

Please respond ONLY to newsgroup

EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all

To Submit Bug Reports:
http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/cx.stm?starturl=casemessage.ssc?CASETYPE=Bug

SQL Anywhere Studio Supported Platforms and Support Status
http://my.sybase.com/detail?id=1002288

"Shao Chan" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:45676cd7$1@forums-1-dub...
> "Rob Waywell" <rwaywell_no_spam_please@ianywhere.com> wrote in message
> news:45672a34$1@forums-1-dub...
>> For (1), I understand why you would want the functionality. I'll defer to
>> Product Management to comment on the possibility of including it in a
>> future release.
>
> Thanks for the response Rob. I believe that a lot of customers would
> benefit from this feature. Many customers would expect it to be there but
> just don't think its worth their time logging an enhancement request.
> Because the database used by M-Business Server is embedded (i.e. for
> M-Business users, they don't need to know what database is being used or
> how to start/stop the database), the route forward is not for the customer
> to be pointing to an existing ASA database and perform a substitute when
> installing a later version.
>
>> For (2), if you have a problem with the upgrade, you need to submit the
>> issue to Tech Support so that we can investigate and help you resolve it.
>> If you did open a case with Support on this issue and it was not resolved
>> to your satisfaction, then please forward me the case # and I'll review
>> it for you.
>
> We did submit the issue to technical support. It was partially fixed in a
> later version. There were issues from losing ODBC connections to losing
> data settings with no option to load from an old database. Some of these
> issues were fixed but I am unsure whether retrieving settings from an
> older installation were (as I did was not working on the submitted issue
> myself and the upgrade had many issues with it). However, my point is, as
> stated above, in any upgrade, minor or major, at most the user should be
> asked whether they wish to migrate their settings from the current
> installed version. Users should always have the option to import/export.
> If the underlying database changes to another database, the user should
> not need to care.
>
>> In any given year thousands of SQL Anywhere databases are upgraded and
>> we do invest a fair bit of effort in designing, implement, testing, and
>> documenting the upgrade process.Upgrades can be a challenge for
>> individual customers because they are 'one time' events, not something
>> that is done every day.I also know, as you do, from experience that not
>> all products provide well tested upgrade paths. It is certainly our
>> intent to provide an efficient and effective upgrade path for our
>> software and if you do encounter problems with your upgrade, then we want
>> to support you through those issues. In the case where the application
>> has been developed by a third party, it is also likely that you will need
>> to involve that third party in the upgrade process.
>> Robert Waywell
>
> I appreciate what you say Rob. All I am saying is that upgrades are and
> will never be tested as fully as new installations - not by a long shot -
> and providing import/export options so that users can totally uninstall
> the old software and install the new software importing the settings is a
> lot more desirable.
>
> Could you also please consider that whilst this is not done on an every
> day basis:
> a) When we do upgrade, we upgrade all our customers wherever possible, so
> this is a chore.
> b) If an issue is found, by the time it is resolved, we'd have already
> worked around it even if it is manually entering all the values in again.
>
> Thanks for your responses to this thread. Adding the import/export
> options would be really useful.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Shao
>