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SySAM

11 posts in Product Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2007-06-16 18:32:19.0Z
Alberto da Silva Posted on 2007-04-18 16:18:58.0Z
From: Alberto da Silva <Alberto.daSilva@rmb.co.za>
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Article PK: 97529

In future versions of ASE, please get rid of SySAM.

It's complicated - over 400 pages of documentation!

SySAM Users Guide 122 pages
SySAM report users guide 134 pages
FLEXnet licensing end users guide 158 pages

It does not enforce licensing compliance.
It is easily bypassed.
It adds no value to the customer
It inflates the cost of ASE
etc

Why not conduct a customer poll?

Basically it's a waste of disk space.

Alberto


Rob Verschoor Posted on 2007-04-23 05:33:14.0Z
Reply-To: "Rob Verschoor" <rob@DO.NOT.SPAM.sypron.nl.REMOVE.THIS.DECOY>
From: "Rob Verschoor" <rob@DO.NOT.SPAM.sypron.nl.REMOVE.THIS.DECOY>
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Article PK: 97531

Assuming you're referring to version 2.0 of Sysam as it comes with ASE 15...
One of the reasons why things were done this way is that customers requested
this sort of functionality from Sybase for compliance reasons, e.g. SOX.
Admittedly there's more in Sysam than that but this was a main driver for
Sysam 2.0.

You write:

> It does not enforce licensing compliance.
> It is easily bypassed.

Could you elaborate on this? I'm under the impression ti does enforce
compliance and is not easily bypassed

Thanks,

Rob V.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Verschoor

Certified Sybase Professional DBA for ASE 12.5/12.0/11.5/11.0
and Replication Server 12.5 / TeamSybase

Author of Sybase books (order online at www.sypron.nl/shop):
"Tips, Tricks & Recipes for Sybase ASE" (new edition!)
"The Complete Sybase ASE Quick Reference Guide" (new edition!)
"The Complete Sybase Replication Server Quick Reference Guide"

mailto:rob@YOUR.SPAM.sypron.nl.NOT.FOR.ME
http://www.sypron.nl
Sypron B.V., P.O.Box 10695, 2501HR Den Haag, The Netherlands
-------------------------------------------------------------

"Alberto da Silva" <Alberto.daSilva@rmb.co.za> wrote in message
news:462644f2$1@forums-1-dub...
> In future versions of ASE, please get rid of SySAM.
>
> It's complicated - over 400 pages of documentation!
>
> SySAM Users Guide 122 pages
> SySAM report users guide 134 pages
> FLEXnet licensing end users guide 158 pages
>
> It does not enforce licensing compliance.
> It is easily bypassed.
> It adds no value to the customer
> It inflates the cost of ASE
> etc
>
> Why not conduct a customer poll?
>
> Basically it's a waste of disk space.
>
> Alberto


Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase] Posted on 2007-05-03 22:05:12.0Z
From: "Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net>
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Article PK: 97536

Hi,

I think Alberto brings up valid points....

Keep in mind that SySAM is really FlexLM repackaged - that's no secret.
This comes in handy for license compliance at the corporate level... a
FlexLM system can handle a lot more than just Sybase licenses.

Rob Verschoor wrote:
> Assuming you're referring to version 2.0 of Sysam as it comes with ASE 15...
> One of the reasons why things were done this way is that customers requested
> this sort of functionality from Sybase for compliance reasons, e.g. SOX.
> Admittedly there's more in Sysam than that but this was a main driver for
> Sysam 2.0.

Yes, but for the hobbyist/small business owner/tester, it can be a royal
pain in the backside. One advantage that ASE 12.x has over ASE 15 is
that a license key is only required for the add ons and isn't tied to
the network mac address. YMMV

> Rob Verschoor wrote:
> Alberto> It does not enforce licensing compliance.
> Alberto> It is easily bypassed.
>
> Could you elaborate on this? I'm under the impression ti does enforce
> compliance and is not easily bypassed

Unfortunately, there are already 'cracks' out in the wild that allows an
unscrupulous person to create their own key files. But... that's not
the point ;-)

The point is that while SySAM 2 works for the corporate level for
compliance to the various business/political standards, it isn't so
great outside of that arena.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about it as my company deals with
disaster recovery tests on a regular basis. Quickly checking in/out the
licenses will be interesting when we move to 15.

--
Jason L. Froebe

Help find a cure for breast cancer! Net proceeds benefit the Susan G.
Komen Breast Cancer Foundation and the National Philanthropic Trust.
Help by donating at http://www.the3day.org/chicago07/jfroebe - I'm
walking 60 miles in 3 days in August 2007. (The day I return from
TechWave is the first day of the Walk)

WebBlog http://jfroebe.livejournal.com
Tech log http://www.froebe.net/blog


A Cornell Posted on 2007-05-04 00:30:47.0Z
From: "A Cornell" <agcornell@msn.com>
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Article PK: 97533

It really is a no brainer if you install ASE as a nonserved license. You
create the license file put it in the SySAM license directory and thats all
there is to it
that way SySAM never runs.

"Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net> wrote in message
news:463a5c98@forums-1-dub...
> Hi,
>
> I think Alberto brings up valid points....
>
> Keep in mind that SySAM is really FlexLM repackaged - that's no secret.
> This comes in handy for license compliance at the corporate level... a
> FlexLM system can handle a lot more than just Sybase licenses.
>
> Rob Verschoor wrote:
>> Assuming you're referring to version 2.0 of Sysam as it comes with ASE
>> 15...
>> One of the reasons why things were done this way is that customers
>> requested this sort of functionality from Sybase for compliance reasons,
>> e.g. SOX. Admittedly there's more in Sysam than that but this was a main
>> driver for Sysam 2.0.
>
> Yes, but for the hobbyist/small business owner/tester, it can be a royal
> pain in the backside. One advantage that ASE 12.x has over ASE 15 is that
> a license key is only required for the add ons and isn't tied to the
> network mac address. YMMV
>
>> Rob Verschoor wrote:
>> Alberto> It does not enforce licensing compliance.
>> Alberto> It is easily bypassed.
>>
>> Could you elaborate on this? I'm under the impression ti does enforce
>> compliance and is not easily bypassed
>
> Unfortunately, there are already 'cracks' out in the wild that allows an
> unscrupulous person to create their own key files. But... that's not the
> point ;-)
>
> The point is that while SySAM 2 works for the corporate level for
> compliance to the various business/political standards, it isn't so great
> outside of that arena.
>
> Personally, I have mixed feelings about it as my company deals with
> disaster recovery tests on a regular basis. Quickly checking in/out the
> licenses will be interesting when we move to 15.
>
> --
> Jason L. Froebe
>
> Help find a cure for breast cancer! Net proceeds benefit the Susan G.
> Komen Breast Cancer Foundation and the National Philanthropic Trust. Help
> by donating at http://www.the3day.org/chicago07/jfroebe - I'm walking 60
> miles in 3 days in August 2007. (The day I return from TechWave is the
> first day of the Walk)
>
> WebBlog http://jfroebe.livejournal.com
> Tech log http://www.froebe.net/blog


Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase] Posted on 2007-05-14 22:01:55.0Z
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Article PK: 97537


A Cornell wrote:
> It really is a no brainer if you install ASE as a nonserved license. You
> create the license file put it in the SySAM license directory and thats all
> there is to it
> that way SySAM never runs.
>

Ah, but it does! :) The license is read in at startup by ASE. Just
because it is partially embedded, doesn't mean it isn't used.

--
Jason L. Froebe

Help find a cure for breast cancer! Net proceeds benefit the Susan G.
Komen Breast Cancer Foundation and the National Philanthropic Trust.
Help by donating at http://www.the3day.org/chicago07/jfroebe - I'm
walking 60 miles in 3 days in August 2007. (The day I return from
TechWave is the first day of the Walk)

WebBlog http://jfroebe.livejournal.com
Tech log http://www.froebe.net/blog


Mark K Posted on 2007-05-15 01:30:34.0Z
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Article PK: 97538

Jason,

I think Allen's point is that the License Server doesn't run when using
unserved licenses.

Mark Kusma

"Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net> wrote in message
news:4648dc53$1@forums-1-dub...
>A Cornell wrote:
>> It really is a no brainer if you install ASE as a nonserved license.
>> You create the license file put it in the SySAM license directory and
>> thats all there is to it
>> that way SySAM never runs.
>>
>
> Ah, but it does! :) The license is read in at startup by ASE. Just
> because it is partially embedded, doesn't mean it isn't used.
>
> --
> Jason L. Froebe
>
> Help find a cure for breast cancer! Net proceeds benefit the Susan G.
> Komen Breast Cancer Foundation and the National Philanthropic Trust. Help
> by donating at http://www.the3day.org/chicago07/jfroebe - I'm walking 60
> miles in 3 days in August 2007. (The day I return from TechWave is the
> first day of the Walk)
>
> WebBlog http://jfroebe.livejournal.com
> Tech log http://www.froebe.net/blog


Alberto da Silva Posted on 2007-06-12 22:21:31.0Z
From: Alberto da Silva <Alberto.daSilva@rmb.co.za>
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Article PK: 97544

This is the "product futures" discussion, and I was
requesting that Sybase either remove, replace or fix SySAM.

My own experience with Flexlm / SySAM 2.0 is that it's very
poor quality software that should not be inflicted on any SysAdmin.

The fact that there are more than 400 pages of documentation
(see first post) is testimony to it's complexity.

To prove the point that SySAM is poor quality, here is a
list of my open cases:
ebf14381 core dumps and fails to install if SySAM is running.
SySAM does not mail if mail server uses "needhello"
SySAM errors if 2 instances of ASE on same server
lmgrd does not close stdin when running as daemon.
etc.

It does not give me a warm feeling to hear that
ASE15 will shutdown if there is a problem with SySAM
especially as the mail alerting does not work properly.

By using Flexlm, Sybase has decreased the reliability of ASE.

Would you deploy ASE+Flexlm into a mission critical system?

There are better ways to do compliance (eg SOX) without risking
product reliability.

FYI: SySAM can be bypassed using < 100 lines of well crafted code.

Alberto

Mark K wrote:
> Jason,
>
> I think Allen's point is that the License Server doesn't run when using
> unserved licenses.
>
> Mark Kusma
>
> "Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net> wrote in message
> news:4648dc53$1@forums-1-dub...
>> A Cornell wrote:
>>> It really is a no brainer if you install ASE as a nonserved license.
>>> You create the license file put it in the SySAM license directory and
>>> thats all there is to it
>>> that way SySAM never runs.
>>>
>> Ah, but it does! :) The license is read in at startup by ASE. Just
>> because it is partially embedded, doesn't mean it isn't used.
>>
>> --
>> Jason L. Froebe


Sherlock, Kevin Posted on 2007-06-13 16:36:12.0Z
From: "Sherlock, Kevin" <ksherlock@saionline.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
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I don't necessarily disagree with any of your experiences, but suggesting that
FlexLM can be bypassed with "<100 lines of well crafted code" would be a MAJOR
breach of the law, not to mention extremely unethical. If caught, you could pay
a pretty price for such a thing not to mention risk your livelyhood.

"Alberto da Silva" <Alberto.daSilva@rmb.co.za> wrote in message
news:466f1c6b$1@forums-1-dub...
> This is the "product futures" discussion, and I was
> requesting that Sybase either remove, replace or fix SySAM.
>
> My own experience with Flexlm / SySAM 2.0 is that it's very
> poor quality software that should not be inflicted on any SysAdmin.
>
> The fact that there are more than 400 pages of documentation
> (see first post) is testimony to it's complexity.
>
> To prove the point that SySAM is poor quality, here is a
> list of my open cases:
> ebf14381 core dumps and fails to install if SySAM is running.
> SySAM does not mail if mail server uses "needhello"
> SySAM errors if 2 instances of ASE on same server
> lmgrd does not close stdin when running as daemon.
> etc.
>
> It does not give me a warm feeling to hear that
> ASE15 will shutdown if there is a problem with SySAM
> especially as the mail alerting does not work properly.
>
> By using Flexlm, Sybase has decreased the reliability of ASE.
>
> Would you deploy ASE+Flexlm into a mission critical system?
>
> There are better ways to do compliance (eg SOX) without risking
> product reliability.
>
> FYI: SySAM can be bypassed using < 100 lines of well crafted code.
>
> Alberto
>
> Mark K wrote:
>> Jason,
>>
>> I think Allen's point is that the License Server doesn't run when using
>> unserved licenses.
>>
>> Mark Kusma
>>
>> "Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net> wrote in message
>> news:4648dc53$1@forums-1-dub...
>>> A Cornell wrote:
>>>> It really is a no brainer if you install ASE as a nonserved license. You
>>>> create the license file put it in the SySAM license directory and thats all
>>>> there is to it
>>>> that way SySAM never runs.
>>>>
>>> Ah, but it does! :) The license is read in at startup by ASE. Just because
>>> it is partially embedded, doesn't mean it isn't used.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jason L. Froebe


Alberto da Silva Posted on 2007-06-13 18:58:59.0Z
From: Alberto da Silva <Alberto.daSilva@rmb.co.za>
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I said FlexLM *can be* bypassed.
I did not say I *was* bypassing FlexLM.

Q. Would you trust a mission critical system to ASE+FlexLM?

Alberto

Sherlock, Kevin wrote:
> I don't necessarily disagree with any of your experiences, but suggesting that
> FlexLM can be bypassed with "<100 lines of well crafted code" would be a MAJOR
> breach of the law, not to mention extremely unethical. If caught, you could pay
> a pretty price for such a thing not to mention risk your livelyhood.
>
> "Alberto da Silva" <Alberto.daSilva@rmb.co.za> wrote in message
> news:466f1c6b$1@forums-1-dub...
>> This is the "product futures" discussion, and I was
>> requesting that Sybase either remove, replace or fix SySAM.
>>
>> My own experience with Flexlm / SySAM 2.0 is that it's very
>> poor quality software that should not be inflicted on any SysAdmin.
>>
>> The fact that there are more than 400 pages of documentation
>> (see first post) is testimony to it's complexity.
>>
>> To prove the point that SySAM is poor quality, here is a
>> list of my open cases:
>> ebf14381 core dumps and fails to install if SySAM is running.
>> SySAM does not mail if mail server uses "needhello"
>> SySAM errors if 2 instances of ASE on same server
>> lmgrd does not close stdin when running as daemon.
>> etc.
>>
>> It does not give me a warm feeling to hear that
>> ASE15 will shutdown if there is a problem with SySAM
>> especially as the mail alerting does not work properly.
>>
>> By using Flexlm, Sybase has decreased the reliability of ASE.
>>
>> Would you deploy ASE+Flexlm into a mission critical system?
>>
>> There are better ways to do compliance (eg SOX) without risking
>> product reliability.
>>
>> FYI: SySAM can be bypassed using < 100 lines of well crafted code.
>>
>> Alberto
>>
>> Mark K wrote:
>>> Jason,
>>>
>>> I think Allen's point is that the License Server doesn't run when using
>>> unserved licenses.
>>>
>>> Mark Kusma
>>>
>>> "Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4648dc53$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>> A Cornell wrote:
>>>>> It really is a no brainer if you install ASE as a nonserved license. You
>>>>> create the license file put it in the SySAM license directory and thats all
>>>>> there is to it
>>>>> that way SySAM never runs.
>>>>>
>>>> Ah, but it does! :) The license is read in at startup by ASE. Just because
>>>> it is partially embedded, doesn't mean it isn't used.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jason L. Froebe
>
>


Sherlock, Kevin Posted on 2007-06-13 21:23:24.0Z
From: "Sherlock, Kevin" <ksherlock@saionline.com>
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"Alberto da Silva" <Alberto.daSilva@rmb.co.za> wrote in message
news:46703e73@forums-1-dub...
>I said FlexLM *can be* bypassed.
> I did not say I *was* bypassing FlexLM.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were bypassing FlexLM. But suggesting
that others *can* bypass without also stating the consequences of doing so
doesn't seem very responsible to me.

> Q. Would you trust a mission critical system to ASE+FlexLM?

I already do. I haven't had any problems.

I don't know if I will, or if I should be concerned.

I'm just saying that I haven't had any of the issues you stated. Your
experience is interesting however, and I would hope that your open cases will be
addressed for your benefit as well as others.

> Alberto
>
> Sherlock, Kevin wrote:
>> I don't necessarily disagree with any of your experiences, but suggesting
>> that FlexLM can be bypassed with "<100 lines of well crafted code" would be a
>> MAJOR breach of the law, not to mention extremely unethical. If caught, you
>> could pay a pretty price for such a thing not to mention risk your
>> livelyhood.
>>
>> "Alberto da Silva" <Alberto.daSilva@rmb.co.za> wrote in message
>> news:466f1c6b$1@forums-1-dub...
>>> This is the "product futures" discussion, and I was
>>> requesting that Sybase either remove, replace or fix SySAM.
>>>
>>> My own experience with Flexlm / SySAM 2.0 is that it's very
>>> poor quality software that should not be inflicted on any SysAdmin.
>>>
>>> The fact that there are more than 400 pages of documentation
>>> (see first post) is testimony to it's complexity.
>>>
>>> To prove the point that SySAM is poor quality, here is a
>>> list of my open cases:
>>> ebf14381 core dumps and fails to install if SySAM is running.
>>> SySAM does not mail if mail server uses "needhello"
>>> SySAM errors if 2 instances of ASE on same server
>>> lmgrd does not close stdin when running as daemon.
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> It does not give me a warm feeling to hear that
>>> ASE15 will shutdown if there is a problem with SySAM
>>> especially as the mail alerting does not work properly.
>>>
>>> By using Flexlm, Sybase has decreased the reliability of ASE.
>>>
>>> Would you deploy ASE+Flexlm into a mission critical system?
>>>
>>> There are better ways to do compliance (eg SOX) without risking
>>> product reliability.
>>>
>>> FYI: SySAM can be bypassed using < 100 lines of well crafted code.
>>>
>>> Alberto
>>>
>>> Mark K wrote:
>>>> Jason,
>>>>
>>>> I think Allen's point is that the License Server doesn't run when using
>>>> unserved licenses.
>>>>
>>>> Mark Kusma
>>>>
>>>> "Jason L. Froebe [Team Sybase]" <jfroebe@froebe.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:4648dc53$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>>> A Cornell wrote:
>>>>>> It really is a no brainer if you install ASE as a nonserved license. You
>>>>>> create the license file put it in the SySAM license directory and thats
>>>>>> all there is to it
>>>>>> that way SySAM never runs.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, but it does! :) The license is read in at startup by ASE. Just
>>>>> because it is partially embedded, doesn't mean it isn't used.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jason L. Froebe
>>


Jason L. Froebe Posted on 2007-06-16 18:32:19.0Z
Message-ID: <46742cb3@forums-1-dub>
From: "Jason L. Froebe" <jason@froebe.net>
Subject: Re: SySAM
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Sherlock, Kevin wrote:

> I don't necessarily disagree with any of your experiences, but suggesting
> that FlexLM can be bypassed with "<100 lines of well crafted code" would
> be a MAJOR
> breach of the law, not to mention extremely unethical. If caught, you
> could pay a pretty price for such a thing not to mention risk your
> livelyhood.

Unethical, wrong, against the license agreement.... yes. It is questionable
whether it is illegal if you purchased the software legally even with the
DMCA. Personally, I believe ethical bypassing of such a thing depends on
the reason to bypass it. IANAL so don't believe a word of this ;-)

In any case, bypassing the SySAM software shouldn't be done unless given the
express, and probably written, permission of Sybase.

--
Jason L. Froebe

Froebe Fibers http://www.froebe-fibers.com
WebBlog http://jfroebe.livejournal.com
Tech log http://www.froebe.net/blog