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SQL Anywhre .vs. SQL Express

7 posts in General Discussion Last posting was on 2007-08-20 09:43:14.0Z
Geoffrey M Chambers Posted on 2007-08-17 18:41:35.0Z
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From: Geoffrey M Chambers
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.general
Subject: SQL Anywhre .vs. SQL Express
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In another user group, (Application Developement). one of
the user claimed SQl Express was a much more advanced
product. Since I am relatively new to SQL I would be
interested in this communties reply to these comments.

He Wrote:
================================
Oh gosh... where to start!

A free report server and report designer 10 times more
powerful than ReportPro and a 100 times easier to use than
crystal.

A professional GUI that really works and has most of the
features of the big boys.

Replication support.

Full text support.

Open Schema support (very poor with Sybase)

But gee, the list is seriously endless when you add things
like
notification support, service broker, native support for web
services, the ability to write SPs in C# or VB, error
handling in SPs in TSQL, not to mention the sheer extent of
what you can do with SQL commands in MS that you cannot with
Sybase. The other thing is documentation. MS is outstanding
and the sheer volume of support or all its command base
compared with Oracle or Sybase has to be applauded. Only DB2
comes close. The other thing is the support and
documentation of the system tables.


Go to some of the comparator sites. It is quite revealing.

===============================


Reg Domaratzki (iAnywhere Solutions) Posted on 2007-08-17 20:11:54.0Z
From: "Reg Domaratzki \(iAnywhere Solutions\)" <FirstName.LastName@ianywhere.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.general
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Subject: Re: SQL Anywhre .vs. SQL Express
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Possibly my favourite post of all time was someone going off on how much
they disliked MS SQL Server. It's from August 2005, but it's well worth the
read. Check out the posts from "Jack T" in the following thread :

http://groups.google.com/group/sybase.public.sqlanywhere.mobilink/browse_thread/thread/732bf996b9504d77

Highlights :

MSSQL 2005 fixes the distinct DATE TIME type problem, but it still has the
exact same DDL RI limitations that MSSQL 2000 suffers from, meaning it will
be another 2 to 5 years before MSSQL catches up to where ASA was in 1989.

MSSQL Express 2005, the freely distributable replacement for MSSQL's 2000
MSDE, is too large to distribute. Along with Frame Work 2.0, it takes as
long to install as the OS.

ASA is flat out boring. It never gives me a problem even on large sites,
and the customers understand how it works.

MSSQL is not and will never be multi-platform.

--
Reg Domaratzki, Sybase iAnywhere Solutions
Sybase Certified Professional - Sybase ASA Developer Version 8
Please reply only to the newsgroup

iAnywhere Developer Community : http://www.ianywhere.com/developer
iAnywhere Documentation : http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals
ASA Patches and EBFs : http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/base.do
-> Choose SQL Anywhere Studio
-> Set filter to "Display ALL platforms IN ALL MONTHS"

<Geoffrey M Chambers> wrote in message
news:46c5ebdf.1f6.1681692777@sybase.com...
> In another user group, (Application Developement). one of
> the user claimed SQl Express was a much more advanced
> product. Since I am relatively new to SQL I would be
> interested in this communties reply to these comments.
>
> He Wrote:
> ================================
> Oh gosh... where to start!
>
> A free report server and report designer 10 times more
> powerful than ReportPro and a 100 times easier to use than
> crystal.
>
> A professional GUI that really works and has most of the
> features of the big boys.
>
> Replication support.
>
> Full text support.
>
> Open Schema support (very poor with Sybase)
>
> But gee, the list is seriously endless when you add things
> like
> notification support, service broker, native support for web
> services, the ability to write SPs in C# or VB, error
> handling in SPs in TSQL, not to mention the sheer extent of
> what you can do with SQL commands in MS that you cannot with
> Sybase. The other thing is documentation. MS is outstanding
> and the sheer volume of support or all its command base
> compared with Oracle or Sybase has to be applauded. Only DB2
> comes close. The other thing is the support and
> documentation of the system tables.
>
>
> Go to some of the comparator sites. It is quite revealing.
>
> ===============================


Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere] Posted on 2007-08-18 10:59:57.0Z
From: "Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]" <NOSPAM__bcarter@risingroad.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.general
Subject: Re: SQL Anywhre .vs. SQL Express
Organization: RisingRoad Professional Services
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FWIW the other newsgroup posting may be found here:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.clipper.visual-objects/browse_frm/thread/93c4bd1849d93dca/016c654b6b8a6d14?lnk=st&q=Oh+gosh...+where+to+start!&rnum=1#016c654b6b8a6d14

I have posted a reply there, asking for a pointer to the "comparator
sites".

Breck

On 17 Aug 2007 11:41:35 -0700, Geoffrey M Chambers wrote:

>In another user group, (Application Developement). one of
>the user claimed SQl Express was a much more advanced
>product. Since I am relatively new to SQL I would be
>interested in this communties reply to these comments.
>
>He Wrote:
>================================
>Oh gosh... where to start!
>
>A free report server and report designer 10 times more
>powerful than ReportPro and a 100 times easier to use than
>crystal.
>
>A professional GUI that really works and has most of the
>features of the big boys.
>
>Replication support.
>
>Full text support.
>
>Open Schema support (very poor with Sybase)
>
>But gee, the list is seriously endless when you add things
>like
>notification support, service broker, native support for web
>services, the ability to write SPs in C# or VB, error
>handling in SPs in TSQL, not to mention the sheer extent of
>what you can do with SQL commands in MS that you cannot with
>Sybase. The other thing is documentation. MS is outstanding
>and the sheer volume of support or all its command base
>compared with Oracle or Sybase has to be applauded. Only DB2
>comes close. The other thing is the support and
>documentation of the system tables.
>
>
>Go to some of the comparator sites. It is quite revealing.
>
>===============================

--
Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]
RisingRoad SQL Anywhere and MobiLink Professional Services
www.risingroad.com
The book: http://www.risingroad.com/SQL_Anywhere_Studio_9_Developers_Guide.html
breck.carter@risingroad.com


Geoffrey M Chambers Posted on 2007-08-18 11:11:20.0Z
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From: Geoffrey M Chambers
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.general
Subject: Re: SQL Anywhre .vs. SQL Express
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Pretty good how did you do that?

> FWIW the other newsgroup posting may be found here:
>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.clipper.visual-objects/browse_frm/thread/93c4bd1849d93dca/016c654b6b8a6d14?lnk=st&q=Oh+gosh...+where+to+start!&rnum=1#016c654b6b8a6d14
>
> I have posted a reply there, asking for a pointer to the
> "comparator sites".
>
> Breck
>
> On 17 Aug 2007 11:41:35 -0700, Geoffrey M Chambers wrote:
>
> >In another user group, (Application Developement). one of
> >the user claimed SQl Express was a much more advanced
> >product. Since I am relatively new to SQL I would be
> >interested in this communties reply to these comments.
> >
> >He Wrote:
> >================================
> >Oh gosh... where to start!
> >
> >A free report server and report designer 10 times more
> >powerful than ReportPro and a 100 times easier to use
> than >crystal.
> >
> >A professional GUI that really works and has most of the
> >features of the big boys.
> >
> >Replication support.
> >
> >Full text support.
> >
> >Open Schema support (very poor with Sybase)
> >
> >But gee, the list is seriously endless when you add
> things >like
> >notification support, service broker, native support for
> web >services, the ability to write SPs in C# or VB, error
> >handling in SPs in TSQL, not to mention the sheer extent
> of >what you can do with SQL commands in MS that you
> cannot with >Sybase. The other thing is documentation. MS
> is outstanding >and the sheer volume of support or all its
> command base >compared with Oracle or Sybase has to be
> applauded. Only DB2 >comes close. The other thing is the
> support and >documentation of the system tables.
> >
> >
> >Go to some of the comparator sites. It is quite
> revealing. >
> >===============================
>
> --
> Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]
> RisingRoad SQL Anywhere and MobiLink Professional Services
> www.risingroad.com
> The book:
>
http://www.risingroad.com/SQL_Anywhere_Studio_9_Developers_Guide.html
> breck.carter@risingroad.com


Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere] Posted on 2007-08-18 14:31:28.0Z
From: "Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]" <NOSPAM__bcarter@risingroad.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.general
Subject: Re: SQL Anywhre .vs. SQL Express
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Did a Google Groups search on

Oh gosh... where to start!

On 18 Aug 2007 04:11:20 -0700, Geoffrey M Chambers wrote:

>Pretty good how did you do that?
>
>> FWIW the other newsgroup posting may be found here:
>>
>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.clipper.visual-objects/browse_frm/thread/93c4bd1849d93dca/016c654b6b8a6d14?lnk=st&q=Oh+gosh...+where+to+start!&rnum=1#016c654b6b8a6d14
>>
>> I have posted a reply there, asking for a pointer to the
>> "comparator sites".
>>
>> Breck
>>
>> On 17 Aug 2007 11:41:35 -0700, Geoffrey M Chambers wrote:
>>
>> >In another user group, (Application Developement). one of
>> >the user claimed SQl Express was a much more advanced
>> >product. Since I am relatively new to SQL I would be
>> >interested in this communties reply to these comments.
>> >
>> >He Wrote:
>> >================================
>> >Oh gosh... where to start!
>> >
>> >A free report server and report designer 10 times more
>> >powerful than ReportPro and a 100 times easier to use
>> than >crystal.
>> >
>> >A professional GUI that really works and has most of the
>> >features of the big boys.
>> >
>> >Replication support.
>> >
>> >Full text support.
>> >
>> >Open Schema support (very poor with Sybase)
>> >
>> >But gee, the list is seriously endless when you add
>> things >like
>> >notification support, service broker, native support for
>> web >services, the ability to write SPs in C# or VB, error
>> >handling in SPs in TSQL, not to mention the sheer extent
>> of >what you can do with SQL commands in MS that you
>> cannot with >Sybase. The other thing is documentation. MS
>> is outstanding >and the sheer volume of support or all its
>> command base >compared with Oracle or Sybase has to be
>> applauded. Only DB2 >comes close. The other thing is the
>> support and >documentation of the system tables.
>> >
>> >
>> >Go to some of the comparator sites. It is quite
>> revealing. >
>> >===============================
>>
>> --
>> Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]
>> RisingRoad SQL Anywhere and MobiLink Professional Services
>> www.risingroad.com
>> The book:
>>
>http://www.risingroad.com/SQL_Anywhere_Studio_9_Developers_Guide.html
>> breck.carter@risingroad.com

--
Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]
RisingRoad SQL Anywhere and MobiLink Professional Services
www.risingroad.com
The book: http://www.risingroad.com/SQL_Anywhere_Studio_9_Developers_Guide.html
breck.carter@risingroad.com


Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere] Posted on 2007-08-18 14:41:50.0Z
From: "Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]" <NOSPAM__bcarter@risingroad.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.general
Subject: Re: SQL Anywhre .vs. SQL Express
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For the benefit of readers of THIS newsgroup, here is the reply I
posted on the OTHER newsgroup (a reply to the OTHER Geoff, not THIS
Geoff :)... the original posting by the other Geoff is at the bottom.

Breck Has Finally Forgiven His Parents For Giving Him A Weird Name

===== the reply to the other Geoff...
SQL Anywhere is vastly different from ASE (formerly Sybase SQL
Server). It started out as a completely different product from a
completely different company, and remains a completely different
product from a subsidiary of Sybase. For over ten years it has had a
*lock* on the embedded, mobile, synchronization and replication
markets, and is now moving into the enterprise database area.

SQL Anywhere does support a large portion of Transact SQL syntax,
simply to provide compatibility with ASE after Watcom, now iAnywhere
Solutions, was acquired by Powersoft and then Sybase. However, SQL
Anywhere has always offered ANSI-standard syntax, with many features
being introduced in advance of MSS and/or ASE. Row-level locking, for
example. ANSI join syntax. FULL OUTER and RECURSIVE outer joins. Java
stored procedures. Procedure and function profiler. Text and image
procedure variables. Automatic file growth. Unlimited row length.
Database mirroring. Many others. SQL Anywhere supports web services
including SOAP, Xpath, Open XML and an http server is built into the
engine. The physical database files are binary compatible across
platforms, even little-endian versus big-endian, so you just need to
do a file copy to move your database from Windows to Linux to Windows
Mobile to Solaris to etcetera. The engine is self-managing, as
described in this recent conference paper:
http://www.ianywhere.com/downloads/whitepapers/SA_SelfMgmt.pdf Not to
mention the best public newsgroup support of any database vendor, with
the awards to prove it.

SQL Anywhere isn't just easy to use, deploy and manage, it performs
well too, as shown by a recently published benchmark discussed here:
http://www.risingroad.com/spec_benchmark.html ...notice that neither
MSS nor ASE even appear in the SPEC list.

If you want to slag ASE and promote MSS, be my guest. But this thread
wasn't talking about ASE, it was talking about SQL Anywhere 10.

IMO it's important to know the topic before engaging in debate.

Breck

===== The original posting on comp.lang.clipper.visual-objects...

>Oh gosh... where to start!
>
>A free report server and report designer 10 times more
>powerful than ReportPro and a 100 times easier to use than
>crystal.
>
>A professional GUI that really works and has most of the
>features of the big boys.
>
>Replication support.
>
>Full text support.
>
>Open Schema support (very poor with Sybase)
>
>But gee, the list is seriously endless when you add things
>like
>notification support, service broker, native support for web
>services, the ability to write SPs in C# or VB, error
>handling in SPs in TSQL, not to mention the sheer extent of
>what you can do with SQL commands in MS that you cannot with
>Sybase. The other thing is documentation. MS is outstanding
>and the sheer volume of support or all its command base
>compared with Oracle or Sybase has to be applauded. Only DB2
>comes close. The other thing is the support and
>documentation of the system tables.
>
>
>Go to some of the comparator sites. It is quite revealing.

=====
--
Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]
RisingRoad SQL Anywhere and MobiLink Professional Services
www.risingroad.com
The book: http://www.risingroad.com/SQL_Anywhere_Studio_9_Developers_Guide.html
breck.carter@risingroad.com


Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere] Posted on 2007-08-20 09:43:14.0Z
From: "Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]" <NOSPAM__bcarter@risingroad.com>
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.general
Subject: Re: SQL Anywhre .vs. SQL Express
Organization: RisingRoad Professional Services
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Again, for the benefit of readers of *this* newsgroup, here my reply
to other Geoff's reply.

Breck

=====
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.clipper.visual-objects/browse_frm/thread/93c4bd1849d93dca/016c654b6b8a6d14?lnk=st&q=Oh+gosh...+where+to+start!&rnum=1#016c654b6b8a6d14

I will try to address some of the comments you made:

On Aug 18, 9:01 pm, "Geoff Schaller"

<geoff_@software_objectives.com.au> wrote:
> Breck,

> There is one reason ASA isn't compared with MS SQL and that is probably
> because it gets beaten on key criteria <g>. I say that because MS beats
> Oracle on several of the key measures shown in the link you provide.

What are these "key criteria" and "key measures" you mention, and
where are the MSS values?

The links I provided made absolutely no mention of MSS. Even if you
look at *all* the results posted for the SPECjAppServer2004 benchmark,
you will only see DBMS products from the following: 1. IBM
Corporation, 2. MySQL Corporation, 3. Oracle Corporation, 4.
PostgreSQL Global Development Group, and 5. iAnywhere. In other words,
Microsoft has neither submitted results, nor provided software for
other people's submissions.

Whether the claim "gets beaten" is true or not, it is not supported by
the links I provided.

> But
> honestly, there is no point in a 'mine is bigger than yours' discussion
> because all mainstream DBMS perform well enough and it becomes more an
> issue of what the client has that you need to support.

I see... all those TPC and SPEC benchmarks are just a waste of time.

> Let me also point out that we were comparing the FREE offerings, not the
> enterprise level solutions, weren't we?

The other person was talking about SQL Anywhere, and you were giving
answers related to ASE, that is what I was trying to clear up.

> At the enterprise level, little separates core functionality between
> Oracle, Sybase, DB2 or MS so from my perspective, the discussion is
> moot.

IMO the discussion is definitely not moot. There are massive
differences in core functionality between these products at all
levels. Take DB2, for example... the SQL language support has fallen
far behind the others, especially in the area of stored procedure and
trigger functionality. I know this from recent, personal experience.

> Where I have the opportunity to consult on the platform, I
> certainly would choose MS SQL Server 2005/2008 and the growing market
> share of MS is a tribute to the fact that it is competitive with the
> others.

Market share growth rate as the only criteria for selection? That
would certainly make a consultant's task easier, not having to worry
about cost, suitability to task and all those other pesky
considerations clients seem to be concerned with these days.

> In fact, Sybase has the lowest market share and it is shrinking.

That is not true of SQL Anywhere.

> There is a reason for this and Sybase products are very, very expensive.
> Perhaps that is a factor?

That is not true of SQL Anywhere.

> The other key issue here is that we are targeting solely windows
> platforms. That is what VO is all about. Alternate platforms just are
> worth discussing here because they have no relevance.

Windows Mobile has no relevance? OK, if you say so...

> The guys here are
> looking for free or low cost RDBMS solutions so ASA enterprise just
> won't be in the mix.

SQL Anywhere is inexpensive to buy. When you count ease of use
including administration and deployment, SQL Anywhere has very low
TCO.

> IBM don't offer a free product and nor really do
> Oracle. The free market is being taken up with PostGre and MySQL but now
> that MS SQL Express is there, the nature of the space has changed.

Those products are "free" at the student and hobbyist level where time
is also free. Commercial clients count all costs including support,
plus they read the license agreements carefully to find out what is
actually free and what must be paid for.

> Sybase had a free version of ASA and that was what I assumed these other
> guys were using. I can't seem to find it now.

Assumptions are so very dangerous... like assuming "Sybase" only means
"ASE".

> So, what are we talking about? Free versions or paid-for licenses?

I'm no longer sure what *you* are talking about, but I am trying to be
clear what I am talking about: The other poster was asking about SQL
Anywhere, and you were giving responses that applied to ASE. That is
what I was trying to address in my reply... apparently I am failing :)

Breck



--
Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]
RisingRoad SQL Anywhere and MobiLink Professional Services
www.risingroad.com
The book: http://www.risingroad.com/SQL_Anywhere_Studio_9_Developers_Guide.html
breck.carter@risingroad.com