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Single ASE / multiple DBs tuning challenges

10 posts in Performance and Tuning Last posting was on 2007-12-06 14:10:35.0Z
AndyF Posted on 2007-12-03 21:48:19.0Z
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From: AndyF
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Subject: Single ASE / multiple DBs tuning challenges
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This is the scenario:


A single host machine, running ASE Enterprise Edition 15.0.1
(on Windows 2003 Server), single ASE server configured on
this.


Multiple databases will be created in this single ASE server
(one database for each 'customer').

Each 'customer' will be running a copy of the same
application against their database (basically an
internet-type
application, connecting via IIS and using the Sybase ADO.Net
data provider).

There is a possibility for a 'slight' variation in the
versions of this application that the customers use, but
we can assume the type of queries being fired against the
databases will be similar.

The maximum number of connections from each customer will
vary (though this will be known in advance).

The databases will have their own dedicated database /
transaction log devices (on separate volumes).

The growth in the number of customers (and therefore
databases) to be hosted on this ASE server over the next 12
months has been estimated and so we have allocated memory
and disk space to the ASE based on this.

We will be using sp_sysmon / monitor server / historical
server to ensure we have been correct in our initial tuning
efforts.

However, are there any tuning considerations specifically
for such a single ASE / multiple database configuration?

For example, what can be done to prevent a particular
customer's application 'running away' with ASE's resources?
I have read about the resource limits option in the System
Admin Guide, but would be interested in other peoples'
experience of this and if this is a practical option for us.

Are there any advantages to reconfiguring this to have
multiple ASEs (one for each customer database) on this host
machine?

Any suggestions and pointers greatly appreciated.


Regards,

AndyF


A. M. Posted on 2007-12-04 00:02:00.0Z
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AndyF wrote:
>
> However, are there any tuning considerations specifically
> for such a single ASE / multiple database configuration?
>
> For example, what can be done to prevent a particular
> customer's application 'running away' with ASE's resources?
> I have read about the resource limits option in the System
> Admin Guide, but would be interested in other peoples'
> experience of this and if this is a practical option for us.

Yes, the resource governor would be the best approach.

> Are there any advantages to reconfiguring this to have
> multiple ASEs (one for each customer database) on this host
> machine?

No. You won't be able to control the resources as
easily. Windows doesn't have a very good memory
management and time sharing algorithm.

If you do get resource problems, you may need to
split off into multiple Windows servers. Managing
that gets harder and I'm not familiar with the Windows
solution.

-am © 2007


AndyF Posted on 2007-12-04 10:02:51.0Z
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Subject: Re: Single ASE / multiple DBs tuning challenges
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Thanks for the response. I will look at the resource
governor.

Cheers,

AndyF

> This is the scenario:
>
>
> A single host machine, running ASE Enterprise Edition
> 15.0.1 (on Windows 2003 Server), single ASE server
> configured on this.
>
>
> Multiple databases will be created in this single ASE
> server (one database for each 'customer').
>
> Each 'customer' will be running a copy of the same
> application against their database (basically an
> internet-type
> application, connecting via IIS and using the Sybase
> ADO.Net data provider).
>
> There is a possibility for a 'slight' variation in the
> versions of this application that the customers use, but
> we can assume the type of queries being fired against the
> databases will be similar.
>
> The maximum number of connections from each customer will
> vary (though this will be known in advance).
>
> The databases will have their own dedicated database /
> transaction log devices (on separate volumes).
>
> The growth in the number of customers (and therefore
> databases) to be hosted on this ASE server over the next
> 12 months has been estimated and so we have allocated
> memory and disk space to the ASE based on this.
>
> We will be using sp_sysmon / monitor server / historical
> server to ensure we have been correct in our initial
> tuning efforts.
>
> However, are there any tuning considerations specifically
> for such a single ASE / multiple database configuration?
>
> For example, what can be done to prevent a particular
> customer's application 'running away' with ASE's
> resources? I have read about the resource limits option in
> the System Admin Guide, but would be interested in other
> peoples' experience of this and if this is a practical
> option for us.
>
> Are there any advantages to reconfiguring this to have
> multiple ASEs (one for each customer database) on this
> host machine?
>
> Any suggestions and pointers greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> AndyF


Manish Negandhi Posted on 2007-12-04 10:32:02.0Z
From: Manish Negandhi <negandhi.manish@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Single ASE / multiple DBs tuning challenges
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>
> > For example, what can be done to prevent a particular
> > customer's application 'running away' with ASE's resources?
> > I have read about the resource limits option in the System
> > Admin Guide, but would be interested in other peoples'
> > experience of this and if this is a practical option for us.
>

To limit the ASE resources to selected number of cpus, you can
consider binding applications, logins or stored proc to execution
class. Execution classes are very blessings when you have cpu
intensive apps or batches in your environment
and by using it , you can make sure that no application or login is
'running away' with ASE's resources

HTH
Manish Negandhi
[TeamSybase Intern]


Rob Verschoor Posted on 2007-12-04 11:27:28.0Z
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From: "Rob Verschoor" <rob@DO.NOT.SPAM.sypron.nl.REMOVE.THIS.DECOY>
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You have to be careful here. Execution classes are designed to guarantee
availablity of resources to certain processes, not to deny them. Also, the
only resource governed by execution classes is CPU. There seems to be common
misunderstanding that you can use execution classes to 'hold back' runaway
processes by giving them a lower priority, but that won't work. In fact, it
may make things worse: a runaway process is typically one doing excessive
I/O. By giving that a lower priority, it means that transactions may run
longer which increases the chance of lock contention etc.
Execution classes work only when there are no runaway processes at all, and
when you truly understand the behaviour of all your queries. That's a
different way of saying that execution classes are not for every application
or ASE server. In fact, I see them used rarely.

The only ways to put a cap on runaway processes is to (i) use resource
limits -- though that may not always be suitable either (ii) keep an eye on
resource usage in monProcessStatement and kill processes that suck up too
much ( you could automate that if you wanted ;-).
The real issue however, is that if in your system runaway processes can
apparently occur, there is something wrong. You need to find the causes, and
fix them.

As for resource limits, the only ones that are sort-of easy to deploy are
the limit on tempdb space and the one on returned #rows. The other ones are
about I/O cost and it's difficult to say what value will be too high for a
'normal' query. It is perhaps quite reasonable to put a tempdb space limit
of, say, 40% of you tempdb size -- it won't stop all scenarios, but it will
stop some that would otherwise have eaten up your entire tempdb.

HTH,

Rob V.

"Manish Negandhi" <negandhi.manish@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fc26e58a-ec4b-430d-a695-1654e6c2f3cb@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >
>> > For example, what can be done to prevent a particular
>> > customer's application 'running away' with ASE's resources?
>> > I have read about the resource limits option in the System
>> > Admin Guide, but would be interested in other peoples'
>> > experience of this and if this is a practical option for us.
>>
>
> To limit the ASE resources to selected number of cpus, you can
> consider binding applications, logins or stored proc to execution
> class. Execution classes are very blessings when you have cpu
> intensive apps or batches in your environment
> and by using it , you can make sure that no application or login is
> 'running away' with ASE's resources
>
> HTH
> Manish Negandhi
> [TeamSybase Intern]
>


A. M. Posted on 2007-12-04 12:02:40.0Z
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Rob Verschoor wrote:
>
> As for resource limits, the only ones that are sort-of easy to deploy are
> the limit on tempdb space and the one on returned #rows. The other ones are
> about I/O cost and it's difficult to say what value will be too high for a
> 'normal' query. It is perhaps quite reasonable to put a tempdb space limit
> of, say, 40% of you tempdb size -- it won't stop all scenarios, but it will
> stop some that would otherwise have eaten up your entire tempdb.

Alternately, bind each customer to their own tempdb. However,
depending on the number of customers, that might eventually
hit another limit.

-am © 2007


Manish Negandhi Posted on 2007-12-04 13:05:54.0Z
From: Manish Negandhi <negandhi.manish@gmail.com>
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Thanks for your reply Rob. That is right, execution class limits only
cpu resource but its extremely useful when you have cpu intensive
programs running regularly. I have seen cpu intensive batch programs
and apps spiking all the cpus and making ASE server not usable for any
users and causing severe outages- if they were not bound to any
execution classes. Basically we use execution classes in our
environment to 'throttle' some batch programs which would otherwise
keep all the cpus very busy

Manish Negandhi
[TeamSybase Intern]


Manish Negandhi Posted on 2007-12-04 13:57:54.0Z
From: Manish Negandhi <negandhi.manish@gmail.com>
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intersting :-) , one more thing about the execution classes which I
should have clarified in the earliar post, was if your business
requires you to run bulk batch programs which uses high i/o and are
cpu intensive, it is not a good idea to apply resource limit there
since aborting the programs are not allowed and giving all the cpus to
these programs also would start casuing problems for other users and
apps


Manish Negandhi
[TeamSybase Intern]


Jeff Tallman Posted on 2007-12-05 20:19:40.0Z
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Subject: Re: Single ASE / multiple DBs tuning challenges
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There are a number of techniques for "virtualization" within an ASE:

1) Dynamic listeners
2) Engine groups - bind different listeners & apps to different engine
groups
3) named caches (diff user db's in diff caches)
4) multiple tempdb's

As to which is better - single ASE/multiple applications - or multiple
ASE's/single application each - a lot depends on the HW are application
usage. ASE on Windows is a single process with multiple OS threads
(each engine is a thread plus IO threads) - I have seen cases where
pushing ASE hard still doesn't allow it to cross the "magical" 50% cpu
usage barrier that windows throws down somehow. On the flip side,
swapping is just about uncontrollable in Windows.....don't know what was
originally discussed but what I might be tempted to do is to start with
several servers (2-3) with different ports but using specific database
devices...and using application specific ports (dynamic listeners).
Then I could slowly reduce the number of servers (or increase) by
unmounting the database/mounting in a new server and starting the
network listener.

Manish Negandhi wrote:
> intersting :-) , one more thing about the execution classes which I
> should have clarified in the earliar post, was if your business
> requires you to run bulk batch programs which uses high i/o and are
> cpu intensive, it is not a good idea to apply resource limit there
> since aborting the programs are not allowed and giving all the cpus to
> these programs also would start casuing problems for other users and
> apps
>
>
> Manish Negandhi
> [TeamSybase Intern]


AndyF Posted on 2007-12-06 14:10:35.0Z
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Thanks for all your responses. Some useful stuff to consider
here.

Regards,

AndyF

> There are a number of techniques for "virtualization"
> within an ASE:
>
> 1) Dynamic listeners
> 2) Engine groups - bind different listeners & apps to
> different engine groups
> 3) named caches (diff user db's in diff caches)
> 4) multiple tempdb's
>
> As to which is better - single ASE/multiple applications -
> or multiple ASE's/single application each - a lot depends
> on the HW are application usage. ASE on Windows is a
> single process with multiple OS threads (each engine is a
> thread plus IO threads) - I have seen cases where pushing
> ASE hard still doesn't allow it to cross the "magical" 50%
> cpu usage barrier that windows throws down somehow. On
> the flip side, swapping is just about uncontrollable in
> Windows.....don't know what was originally discussed but
> what I might be tempted to do is to start with several
> servers (2-3) with different ports but using specific
> database devices...and using application specific ports
> (dynamic listeners). Then I could slowly reduce the
> number of servers (or increase) by unmounting the
> database/mounting in a new server and starting the
> network listener.
>
> Manish Negandhi wrote:
> > intersting :-) , one more thing about the execution
> > classes which I should have clarified in the earliar
> > post, was if your business requires you to run bulk
> > batch programs which uses high i/o and are cpu intensive
> > , it is not a good idea to apply resource limit there
> since aborting the programs are not allowed and giving all
> > the cpus to these programs also would start casuing
> > problems for other users and apps
> >
> >
> > Manish Negandhi
> > [TeamSybase Intern]