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Local versus Remote Server

23 posts in Networking Last posting was on 2008-08-12 09:23:42.0Z
Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-07-15 13:30:58.0Z
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:30:58 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Hi all,

I've read that there's a difference in speed between the local and
remote server, the local server beeing quicker...

But is it normal that when using the remote server our application is
about 20 times slower?

Thanks a lot
Dirk


Joachim Duerr (ADS) Posted on 2008-07-15 14:54:45.0Z
From: "Joachim Duerr (ADS)" <jojo.duerr@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:

> I've read that there's a difference in speed between the local and
> remote server, the local server beeing quicker...
>
> But is it normal that when using the remote server our application is
> about 20 times slower?

that really depends on the usage. Did you try in a multi user
environment aswell?

--
Joachim Duerr
System Consultant (Advantage Database Server)
Sybase iAnywhere
advantagesupport[AT]ianywhere.com


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-07-15 14:26:33.0Z
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:26:33 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:

> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>
>> I've read that there's a difference in speed between the local and
>> remote server, the local server beeing quicker...
>>
>> But is it normal that when using the remote server our application is
>> about 20 times slower?
>
> that really depends on the usage. Did you try in a multi user
> environment aswell?
>

No I didn't, but that will make no difference, since I'm talking about
information that is calculated once, I'm not posting data or something
like that.

For example, I'm calculating the number in stock for a given partnumber.

How can that make a difference in a multi user environment.

How can you justify the cost of a remote server if it works that slow?
Take in mind that our company will be buying 1100 licenses.

500 customers work standalone, why sell them a server?

Dirk


Mark Wilkins Posted on 2008-07-15 15:02:39.0Z
From: "Mark Wilkins" <mark@no.email>
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
References: <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cac25@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cb24d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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"Dirk Verleyen" <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be> wrote in message
news:487cb24d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:
>> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>>
>>> I've read that there's a difference in speed between the local and
>>> remote server, the local server beeing quicker...
>>>
>>> But is it normal that when using the remote server our application is
>>> about 20 times slower?
>>
>> that really depends on the usage. Did you try in a multi user
>> environment aswell?
>>
> No I didn't, but that will make no difference, since I'm talking about
> information that is calculated once, I'm not posting data or something
> like that.

If the calculations are done at the client and is based on data that is read
from the server, then it will make a difference if you try it with multiple
users. If a client application opens a file with local server (this applies
to any client-side open, not just Advantage) and is the only client
accessing the file, then Windows will sometimes cache the file locally.
This means that it will be reading everything out of memory eventually and
can be extremely fast. If you open a file from two different workstations,
then Windows will not do this caching. In that situation, Advantage
Database Server (remote server) will almost certainly run faster.

>
> 500 customers work standalone, why sell them a server?

If each one works with his own independent set of data and nothing is
shared, then it may not make sense. Just copy the tables to each
workstation and do regular backups. If all 500 users are accessing the same
data, local server will be a very poor solution. But even with a single
user accessing the data, a client/server solution can be more robust and
greatly reduce/eliminate data corruption. You can also provide greater
security and you can prevent the users from accessing the files through
anything other than your application. If you use local server, then you
must make the tables visible to the user who can then see them with Windows
Explorere and delete/rename/change them ... not that a user would ever do
that :)

HTH,
Mark Wilkins
Advantage R&D


Joachim Duerr (ADS) Posted on 2008-07-16 09:06:44.0Z
From: "Joachim Duerr (ADS)" <jojo.duerr@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
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Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487cb24d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:

> For example, I'm calculating the number in stock for a given
> partnumber.

you can write a SQL script and do the whole calculation on server side.
This will do the job without transferring any data to the client.
If you want, post that part of the Delphi code and we could translate
it into SQL script.

--
Joachim Duerr
System Consultant (Advantage Database Server)
Sybase iAnywhere
advantagesupport[AT]ianywhere.com


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-07-16 14:45:02.0Z
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:45:02 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:

> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487cb24d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>
>> For example, I'm calculating the number in stock for a given
>> partnumber.
>
> you can write a SQL script and do the whole calculation on server side.
> This will do the job without transferring any data to the client.
> If you want, post that part of the Delphi code and we could translate
> it into SQL script.
>

The current code is about 200 lines and uses about 6 tables.

Is that doable with a sql script?


Joachim Duerr (ADS) Posted on 2008-07-16 15:43:51.0Z
From: "Joachim Duerr (ADS)" <jojo.duerr@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
References: <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cac25@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cb24d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487dac14@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e0823@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>
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Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487e0823@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:

> The current code is about 200 lines and uses about 6 tables.
>
> Is that doable with a sql script?

it depends;)
Usually there should be no issue doing such stuff with a script.

--
Joachim Duerr
System Consultant (Advantage Database Server)
Sybase iAnywhere
advantagesupport[AT]ianywhere.com


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-07-16 14:51:21.0Z
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:51:21 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:

> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487e0823@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>
>> The current code is about 200 lines and uses about 6 tables.
>>
>> Is that doable with a sql script?
>
> it depends;)
> Usually there should be no issue doing such stuff with a script.
>

Can I send the code directly to a mailadres?

I prefer not posting this on the group...


Joachim Duerr (ADS) Posted on 2008-07-16 22:35:56.0Z
From: "Joachim Duerr (ADS)" <jojo.duerr@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
References: <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cac25@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cb24d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487dac14@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e0823@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e0927@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e099d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>
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Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487e099d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:

> Can I send the code directly to a mailadres?
>
> I prefer not posting this on the group...

AdvantageSupport@Sybase.com
attn: Joachim

I'll take a look, but I'm out of office for a couple of days now.

--
Joachim Duerr
System Consultant (Advantage Database Server)
Sybase iAnywhere
advantagesupport[AT]ianywhere.com


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-08-11 09:12:22.0Z
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:12:22 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:

> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487e099d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>
>> Can I send the code directly to a mailadres?
>>
>> I prefer not posting this on the group...
>
> AdvantageSupport@Sybase.com
> attn: Joachim
>
> I'll take a look, but I'm out of office for a couple of days now.
>

What do you think is the best, SQL Script or a AEP?


Joachim Duerr (ADS) Posted on 2008-08-11 10:12:49.0Z
From: "Joachim Duerr (ADS)" <jojo.duerr@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
References: <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cac25@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cb24d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487dac14@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e0823@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e0927@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e099d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e69bc@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <48a0012d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>
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Dirk Verleyen wrote in <48a0012d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:

> What do you think is the best, SQL Script or a AEP?

SQL Script is portable to other operating systems, but not as flexible
since limited to the scripting language.

--
Joachim Duerr
System Consultant (Advantage Database Server)
Sybase iAnywhere
advantagesupport[AT]ianywhere.com


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-07-15 14:43:22.0Z
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:43:22 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421)
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Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Article PK: 1132193

Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:

> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>
>> I've read that there's a difference in speed between the local and
>> remote server, the local server beeing quicker...
>>
>> But is it normal that when using the remote server our application is
>> about 20 times slower?
>
> that really depends on the usage. Did you try in a multi user
> environment aswell?
>

Can I use two connections in the same application?

The idea is to use the local for bulk data fetching an the remote for
all the rest?


Mark Wilkins Posted on 2008-07-15 16:04:18.0Z
From: "Mark Wilkins" <mark@no.email>
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
References: <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cac25@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cb63f@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Article PK: 1132194


"Dirk Verleyen" <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be> wrote in message
news:487cb63f@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:
>> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>>
> Can I use two connections in the same application?

Yes.

>
> The idea is to use the local for bulk data fetching an the remote for all
> the rest?

If the data is shared between multiple workstations, then this is probably
not a good plan. I just now did a simple test with a 1 million record
table. I timed how long it took to skip through the table in index order.
I tried it on a single workstation against a file server with both remote
and local server. And then I ran the same test concurrently with two
separate workstations. The single workstation situation is probably what
you tested. But as soon as a second workstation is added, it can be
extremely slow. These times are obviously dependent on many factors with
network speed being the biggest factor for this test, but I believe the
relative times would be the same in most situations.

Reading through 1 million record table in index order.

One workstation
local: 20.4 (seconds)
remote: 60.2 (seconds)

Two workstations
local: 254.2, 327.1 (seconds)
remote: 71.4, 81.6 (seconds)

If the read-ahead cache is set to 100 records (default is 10), then
Advantage Database Server (remote) is even faster. A read-ahead cache is
not possible with local server in index order

Two workstations with 100 record cache: 35.8, 35.6 (seconds)

Mark Wilkins
Advantage R&D


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-07-16 06:31:56.0Z
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:31:56 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Mark Wilkins schreef:

> "Dirk Verleyen" <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be> wrote in message
> news:487cb63f@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
>> Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:
>>> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>>>
>> Can I use two connections in the same application?
>
> Yes.
>
>> The idea is to use the local for bulk data fetching an the remote for all
>> the rest?
>
> If the data is shared between multiple workstations, then this is probably
> not a good plan. I just now did a simple test with a 1 million record
> table. I timed how long it took to skip through the table in index order.
> I tried it on a single workstation against a file server with both remote
> and local server. And then I ran the same test concurrently with two
> separate workstations. The single workstation situation is probably what
> you tested. But as soon as a second workstation is added, it can be
> extremely slow. These times are obviously dependent on many factors with
> network speed being the biggest factor for this test, but I believe the
> relative times would be the same in most situations.
>
> Reading through 1 million record table in index order.
>
> One workstation
> local: 20.4 (seconds)
> remote: 60.2 (seconds)
>
> Two workstations
> local: 254.2, 327.1 (seconds)
> remote: 71.4, 81.6 (seconds)
>
> If the read-ahead cache is set to 100 records (default is 10), then
> Advantage Database Server (remote) is even faster. A read-ahead cache is
> not possible with local server in index order
>
> Two workstations with 100 record cache: 35.8, 35.6 (seconds)
>
> Mark Wilkins
> Advantage R&D
>
>

Thanks for the information!

Can you tell me where to set the read-ahead chache?


Joachim Duerr (ADS) Posted on 2008-07-16 09:05:12.0Z
From: "Joachim Duerr (ADS)" <jojo.duerr@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
References: <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cac25@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cb63f@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cc919@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487d9491@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>
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Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487d9491@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:

> Can you tell me where to set the read-ahead chache?

It's one of the settings of TAdsTable.AdsTableOptions. There's also an
API call available to do it, but better use the component in Delphi.

--
Joachim Duerr
System Consultant (Advantage Database Server)
Sybase iAnywhere
advantagesupport[AT]ianywhere.com


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-07-16 14:18:49.0Z
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:18:49 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:

> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487d9491@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>
>> Can you tell me where to set the read-ahead chache?
>
> It's one of the settings of TAdsTable.AdsTableOptions. There's also an
> API call available to do it, but better use the component in Delphi.
>

Can't seem to find that. Take a look at the attachment.

I'm on holiday now for a couple of weeks...

TAdsTable.jpg

Joachim Duerr (ADS) Posted on 2008-07-16 15:30:37.0Z
From: "Joachim Duerr (ADS)" <jojo.duerr@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
References: <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cac25@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cb63f@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cc919@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487d9491@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487dabb8@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e0203@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>
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Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487e0203@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:

> Can't seem to find that. Take a look at the attachment.

AdsTable.AdsTableOptions.AdsRecordCache

--
Joachim Duerr
System Consultant (Advantage Database Server)
Sybase iAnywhere
advantagesupport[AT]ianywhere.com


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-07-16 14:42:53.0Z
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:42:53 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:

> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487e0203@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>
>> Can't seem to find that. Take a look at the attachment.
>
> AdsTable.AdsTableOptions.AdsRecordCache
>

ok thanks


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-08-11 14:14:39.0Z
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:14:39 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
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Dirk Verleyen schreef:

> Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:
>> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <487e0203@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>>
>>> Can't seem to find that. Take a look at the attachment.
>>
>> AdsTable.AdsTableOptions.AdsRecordCache
>>
> ok thanks

Is it normal that I can't have two connection in the same application,
to one dictionary. (local and remote).

I'm still using the free version, maybe this is a limitation?


Joachim Duerr (ADS) Posted on 2008-08-11 15:28:53.0Z
From: "Joachim Duerr (ADS)" <jojo.duerr@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Local versus Remote Server
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
References: <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cac25@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cb63f@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cc919@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487d9491@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487dabb8@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e0203@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e060d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e07a2@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <48a04806@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>
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Dirk Verleyen wrote in <48a04806@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:

> Is it normal that I can't have two connection in the same
> application, to one dictionary. (local and remote).

yes, that's normal. Either Local or Remote.

--
Joachim Duerr
System Consultant (Advantage Database Server)
Sybase iAnywhere
advantagesupport[AT]ianywhere.com


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-08-11 14:39:45.0Z
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:39:45 +0200
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Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:

> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <48a04806@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>
>> Is it normal that I can't have two connection in the same
>> application, to one dictionary. (local and remote).
>
> yes, that's normal. Either Local or Remote.
>

How can I then use two connections in the same application?

Some threads ago you said that it was possible?


Mark Wilkins Posted on 2008-08-11 23:31:11.0Z
From: "Mark Wilkins" <mark@no.email>
Newsgroups: Advantage.Networking
References: <487ca546@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cac25@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cb63f@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487cc919@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487d9491@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487dabb8@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e0203@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e060d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <487e07a2@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <48a04806@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <48a04ca5@solutions.advantagedatabase.com> <48a04de7@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>
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"Dirk Verleyen" <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be> wrote in message
news:48a04de7@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:
>> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <48a04806@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>>
>>> Is it normal that I can't have two connection in the same
>>> application, to one dictionary. (local and remote).
>>
>> yes, that's normal. Either Local or Remote.
>>
> How can I then use two connections in the same application?
>
> Some threads ago you said that it was possible?

You might be referring to my response earlier on this thread. I may not
have understood the question completely. I thought you were asking simply
if you could have two connections in one application. You can open data
dictionary A with local server and data dictionary B with remote server in
one application. However, you cannot open a single data dictionary at the
same time with a remote connection and a local connection. You cannot share
a dictionary at the same time with local and remote server.

Mark Wilkins
Advantage R&D


Dirk Verleyen Posted on 2008-08-12 09:23:42.0Z
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:23:42 +0200
From: Dirk Verleyen <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be>
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Mark Wilkins schreef:

> "Dirk Verleyen" <dirk.verleyennospam@carfac.be> wrote in message
> news:48a04de7@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
>> Joachim Duerr (ADS) schreef:
>>> Dirk Verleyen wrote in <48a04806@solutions.advantagedatabase.com>:
>>>
>>>> Is it normal that I can't have two connection in the same
>>>> application, to one dictionary. (local and remote).
>>> yes, that's normal. Either Local or Remote.
>>>
>> How can I then use two connections in the same application?
>>
>> Some threads ago you said that it was possible?
>
> You might be referring to my response earlier on this thread. I may not
> have understood the question completely. I thought you were asking simply
> if you could have two connections in one application. You can open data
> dictionary A with local server and data dictionary B with remote server in
> one application. However, you cannot open a single data dictionary at the
> same time with a remote connection and a local connection. You cannot share
> a dictionary at the same time with local and remote server.
>
> Mark Wilkins
> Advantage R&D
>
>

ok thanks, now I understand.