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Sybase Engine 10 - How does this communicate on the network?

8 posts in General Discussion Last posting was on 2009-10-13 19:49:21.0Z
RLETT Posted on 2009-07-24 14:56:54.0Z
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From: Rlett
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Subject: Sybase Engine 10 - How does this communicate on the network?
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We license this for the software we manufacture. I am
wondering how this communicates with the clients in a server
environment.

The server has an Engine name. Is that broadcast from the
server over the network? Or does the client which is
deployed on a workstation broadcast looking for the engine
name? And is this netbios, wins?

We can also force TCPIP and doing so the client through a
key looks knows the IP in addition to knowing the engine
name. But the server service has this parameter
tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX;dobroadcast=no}
What does this specifically do??

Thanks....


Jeff Albion [Sybase iAnywhere] Posted on 2009-07-24 16:03:12.0Z
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Rlett,

Rlett wrote:
> The server has an Engine name. Is that broadcast from the
> server over the network? Or does the client which is
> deployed on a workstation broadcast looking for the engine
> name? And is this netbios, wins?

The server starts up a UDP listener (on the same port as the TCP
interface) to respond to UDP broadcasts looking for server names. You
can disable this behaviour by using "-sb 0":

http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/sb-database-dbserver.html

> We can also force TCPIP and doing so the client through a
> key looks knows the IP in addition to knowing the engine
> name. But the server service has this parameter
> tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX;dobroadcast=no}
> What does this specifically do??

By default, the server will also look for other servers of the same name
when it starts up (and if it detects them, it will state that the
"engine name is already in use" and will shut down). To disable this
behaviour, you should start with the server switch:

-x tcpip(DOBROAD=no)

(See:
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/dobroadcast-network-conparm.html )

"MyIP" sets the network interface(s) that the server will bind to.

(See: http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/myip-network-conparm.html )

---

Finally for completeness, if your server is configured not to listen to
UDP broadcasts, "dblocate" will not be able to find your server and all
clients MUST use the server's IP address when they try to connect. For
efficiency reasons, you should also disable the UDP broadcast on the
client when trying to connect to the database:

-c "UID=dba;PWD=sql;...;LINKS=tcpip(host=aaa.bbb.xxx.yyy;dobroad=none)

Cheers,

--
Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere

iAnywhere Developer Community :
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
iAnywhere Documentation : http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals
SQL Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
Report a Bug/Open a Case : http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


RLETT Posted on 2009-07-24 20:11:19.0Z
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From: RLETT
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Subject: Re: Sybase Engine 10 - How does this communicate on the network?
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Thanks.... So its UDP, connectionless yes? And Not TCP.

> Rlett,
>
> Rlett wrote:
> > The server has an Engine name. Is that broadcast from
> > the server over the network? Or does the client which is
> > deployed on a workstation broadcast looking for the
> > engine name? And is this netbios, wins?
>
> The server starts up a UDP listener (on the same port as
> the TCP interface) to respond to UDP broadcasts looking
> for server names. You can disable this behaviour by using
> "-sb 0":
>
>
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/sb-database-dbserver.html
>
> > We can also force TCPIP and doing so the client through
> > a key looks knows the IP in addition to knowing the
> > engine name. But the server service has this parameter
> > tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX;dobroadcast=no}
> > What does this specifically do??
>
> By default, the server will also look for other servers of
> the same name when it starts up (and if it detects them,
> it will state that the "engine name is already in use"
> and will shut down). To disable this behaviour, you
> should start with the server switch:
>
> -x tcpip(DOBROAD=no)
>
> (See:
>
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/dobroadcast-network-conparm.html
> )
>
> "MyIP" sets the network interface(s) that the server will
> bind to.
>
> (See:
>
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/myip-network-conparm.html
> )
>
> ---
>
> Finally for completeness, if your server is configured not
> to listen to UDP broadcasts, "dblocate" will not be able
> to find your server and all clients MUST use the server's
> IP address when they try to connect. For efficiency
> reasons, you should also disable the UDP broadcast on the
> client when trying to connect to the database:
>
> -c "UID=dba;PWD=sql;...;LINKS=tcpip(host=aaa.bbb.xxx.yyy
> ;dobroad=none)
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere
>
> iAnywhere Developer Community :
>
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
> iAnywhere Documentation :
> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals SQL
> Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
>
http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
> Report a Bug/Open a Case :
> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


John Smirnios [Sybase] Posted on 2009-07-25 00:54:35.0Z
From: "John Smirnios [Sybase]" <smirnios_at_sybase.com>
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UDP to find the server, TCP for communications.

-john.

--
John Smirnios
Senior Software Developer
iAnywhere Solutions Engineering

Whitepapers, TechDocs, bug fixes are all available through the iAnywhere
Developer Community at http://www.ianywhere.com/developer

RLETT wrote:
> Thanks.... So its UDP, connectionless yes? And Not TCP.
>
>
>> Rlett,
>>
>> Rlett wrote:
>>> The server has an Engine name. Is that broadcast from
>>> the server over the network? Or does the client which is
>>> deployed on a workstation broadcast looking for the
>>> engine name? And is this netbios, wins?
>> The server starts up a UDP listener (on the same port as
>> the TCP interface) to respond to UDP broadcasts looking
>> for server names. You can disable this behaviour by using
>> "-sb 0":
>>
>>
> http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/sb-database-dbserver.html
>>> We can also force TCPIP and doing so the client through
>>> a key looks knows the IP in addition to knowing the
>>> engine name. But the server service has this parameter
>>> tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX;dobroadcast=no}
>>> What does this specifically do??
>> By default, the server will also look for other servers of
>> the same name when it starts up (and if it detects them,
>> it will state that the "engine name is already in use"
>> and will shut down). To disable this behaviour, you
>> should start with the server switch:
>>
>> -x tcpip(DOBROAD=no)
>>
>> (See:
>>
> http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/dobroadcast-network-conparm.html
>> )
>>
>> "MyIP" sets the network interface(s) that the server will
>> bind to.
>>
>> (See:
>>
> http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/myip-network-conparm.html
>> )
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Finally for completeness, if your server is configured not
>> to listen to UDP broadcasts, "dblocate" will not be able
>> to find your server and all clients MUST use the server's
>> IP address when they try to connect. For efficiency
>> reasons, you should also disable the UDP broadcast on the
>> client when trying to connect to the database:
>>
>> -c "UID=dba;PWD=sql;...;LINKS=tcpip(host=aaa.bbb.xxx.yyy
>> ;dobroad=none)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere
>>
>> iAnywhere Developer Community :
>>
> http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
>> iAnywhere Documentation :
>> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals SQL
>> Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
>>
> http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
>> Report a Bug/Open a Case :
>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


RLETT Posted on 2009-07-28 15:43:07.0Z
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Subject: Re: Sybase Engine 10 - How does this communicate on the network?
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Thanks for the info. Perhaps we can clarify this to...

When we force tcpip on the server/engine the settings we use
are... I notice that our dobroadcast is different than your
dobroad. Should we change that?

-gp 4096 -ti 0 -tl 0 -gd all -x
tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX;dobroadcast=no} -n <Enginename>

Since UDP listener is not shut down based on our switches,
we communicate first through UDP. Does the client broadcast
that it is looking for a specific engine name and is that
what the listener is looking for? Or does it listen for
activity on the port and once it see's activity it
broadcasts the engine name. From there it connects tcpip...

On the client we just pick tcpip as the protocal and include
the {HOST=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx} -ga -qi

In a nutshell the server has a listener for the UDP
broadcast of the client. When we turn broadcast=no it makes
certain that it does not shut the engine down if it notices
another. The listener listens at the port chosen for a
signal, something predefined, is the engine name? Or just
that there is some activity at the port and they go from
there.

Thanks...

> UDP to find the server, TCP for communications.
>
> -john.
>
> --
> John Smirnios
> Senior Software Developer
> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
>
> Whitepapers, TechDocs, bug fixes are all available through
> the iAnywhere Developer Community at
> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer
>
> RLETT wrote:
> > Thanks.... So its UDP, connectionless yes? And Not TCP.
> >
> >
> >> Rlett,
> >>
> >> Rlett wrote:
> >>> The server has an Engine name. Is that broadcast from
> >>> the server over the network? Or does the client which
> is >>> deployed on a workstation broadcast looking for the
> >>> engine name? And is this netbios, wins?
> >> The server starts up a UDP listener (on the same port
> as >> the TCP interface) to respond to UDP broadcasts
> looking >> for server names. You can disable this
> behaviour by using >> "-sb 0":
> >>
> >>
> >
>
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/sb-database-dbserver.html
> >>> We can also force TCPIP and doing so the client
> through >>> a key looks knows the IP in addition to
> knowing the >>> engine name. But the server service has
> this parameter >>> tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
> ;dobroadcast=no} >>> What does this specifically do??
> >> By default, the server will also look for other servers
> of >> the same name when it starts up (and if it detects
> them, >> it will state that the "engine name is already
> in use" >> and will shut down). To disable this behaviour
> , you >> should start with the server switch:
> >>
> >> -x tcpip(DOBROAD=no)
> >>
> >> (See:
> >>
> >
>
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/dobroadcast-network-conparm.html
> >> )
> >>
> >> "MyIP" sets the network interface(s) that the server
> will >> bind to.
> >>
> >> (See:
> >>
> >
>
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/myip-network-conparm.html
> >> )
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> Finally for completeness, if your server is configured
> not >> to listen to UDP broadcasts, "dblocate" will not
> be able >> to find your server and all clients MUST use
> the server's >> IP address when they try to connect. For
> efficiency >> reasons, you should also disable the UDP
> broadcast on the >> client when trying to connect to the
> database: >>
> >> -c "UID=dba;PWD=sql;...
> ;LINKS=tcpip(host=aaa.bbb.xxx.yyy >> ;dobroad=none)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere
> >>
> >> iAnywhere Developer Community :
> >>
> >
>
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
> >> iAnywhere Documentation :
> >> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals SQL
> >> Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
> >>
> >
>
http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
> >> Report a Bug/Open a Case :
> >> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


"Ian McHardy [Sybase iAnywhere]" <mchardy_no Posted on 2009-07-29 15:27:13.0Z
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dobroad is the shortform for dobroadcast. See
http://dcx11-vm.sybase.com/index.html#1101en/dbadmin_en11/dobroadcast-network-conparm.html

If the client broadcasts using UDP, the broad cast includes the name of the
server it is looking for. The server with the matching name replies over
UDP. If the client has connected to the server before, it uses a cached
server address and skips the UDP broadcast unless connecting to the cached
address fails.

I don't know what you mean by:

> On the client we just pick tcpip as the protocal and include
> the {HOST=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx} -ga -qi

these are partial server command line switches and I don't know what you are
trying to ask.

As the documentation states, using dobroadcast=no prevents the server for
checking if other servers are running with the same name on the same subnet.
--

Ian McHardy (Sybase iAnywhere)

Please reply only to the newsgroup.

SQL Anywhere Developer Community -
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
SQL Anywhere Blog Center - http://www.sybase.com/sqlanyblogs

<RLETT> wrote in message news:4a6f1c8b.c4d.1681692777@sybase.com...
> Thanks for the info. Perhaps we can clarify this to...
>
> When we force tcpip on the server/engine the settings we use
> are... I notice that our dobroadcast is different than your
> dobroad. Should we change that?
>
> -gp 4096 -ti 0 -tl 0 -gd all -x
> tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX;dobroadcast=no} -n <Enginename>
>
> Since UDP listener is not shut down based on our switches,
> we communicate first through UDP. Does the client broadcast
> that it is looking for a specific engine name and is that
> what the listener is looking for? Or does it listen for
> activity on the port and once it see's activity it
> broadcasts the engine name. From there it connects tcpip...
>
> On the client we just pick tcpip as the protocal and include
> the {HOST=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx} -ga -qi
>
> In a nutshell the server has a listener for the UDP
> broadcast of the client. When we turn broadcast=no it makes
> certain that it does not shut the engine down if it notices
> another. The listener listens at the port chosen for a
> signal, something predefined, is the engine name? Or just
> that there is some activity at the port and they go from
> there.
>
> Thanks...
>
>
>> UDP to find the server, TCP for communications.
>>
>> -john.
>>
>> --
>> John Smirnios
>> Senior Software Developer
>> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
>>
>> Whitepapers, TechDocs, bug fixes are all available through
>> the iAnywhere Developer Community at
>> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer
>>
>> RLETT wrote:
>> > Thanks.... So its UDP, connectionless yes? And Not TCP.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Rlett,
>> >>
>> >> Rlett wrote:
>> >>> The server has an Engine name. Is that broadcast from
>> >>> the server over the network? Or does the client which
>> is >>> deployed on a workstation broadcast looking for the
>> >>> engine name? And is this netbios, wins?
>> >> The server starts up a UDP listener (on the same port
>> as >> the TCP interface) to respond to UDP broadcasts
>> looking >> for server names. You can disable this
>> behaviour by using >> "-sb 0":
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/sb-database-dbserver.html
>> >>> We can also force TCPIP and doing so the client
>> through >>> a key looks knows the IP in addition to
>> knowing the >>> engine name. But the server service has
>> this parameter >>> tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
>> ;dobroadcast=no} >>> What does this specifically do??
>> >> By default, the server will also look for other servers
>> of >> the same name when it starts up (and if it detects
>> them, >> it will state that the "engine name is already
>> in use" >> and will shut down). To disable this behaviour
>> , you >> should start with the server switch:
>> >>
>> >> -x tcpip(DOBROAD=no)
>> >>
>> >> (See:
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/dobroadcast-network-conparm.html
>> >> )
>> >>
>> >> "MyIP" sets the network interface(s) that the server
>> will >> bind to.
>> >>
>> >> (See:
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/myip-network-conparm.html
>> >> )
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >>
>> >> Finally for completeness, if your server is configured
>> not >> to listen to UDP broadcasts, "dblocate" will not
>> be able >> to find your server and all clients MUST use
>> the server's >> IP address when they try to connect. For
>> efficiency >> reasons, you should also disable the UDP
>> broadcast on the >> client when trying to connect to the
>> database: >>
>> >> -c "UID=dba;PWD=sql;...
>> ;LINKS=tcpip(host=aaa.bbb.xxx.yyy >> ;dobroad=none)
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere
>> >>
>> >> iAnywhere Developer Community :
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
>> >> iAnywhere Documentation :
>> >> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals SQL
>> >> Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
>> >> Report a Bug/Open a Case :
>> >> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


RLET Posted on 2009-07-29 18:34:52.0Z
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Here is a screen shot of or client and its "switchs". When
we "force tcpip" the client needs to be have it populated
like this and the ip where it needs to be.

I want to thank you.....

> dobroad is the shortform for dobroadcast. See
>
http://dcx11-vm.sybase.com/index.html#1101en/dbadmin_en11/dobroadcast-network-conparm.html
>
> If the client broadcasts using UDP, the broad cast
> includes the name of the server it is looking for. The
> server with the matching name replies over UDP. If the
> client has connected to the server before, it uses a
> cached server address and skips the UDP broadcast unless
> connecting to the cached address fails.
>
> I don't know what you mean by:
> > On the client we just pick tcpip as the protocal and
> > include the {HOST=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx} -ga -qi
> these are partial server command line switches and I don't
> know what you are trying to ask.
>
> As the documentation states, using dobroadcast=no prevents
> the server for checking if other servers are running with
> the same name on the same subnet. --
>
> Ian McHardy (Sybase iAnywhere)
>
> Please reply only to the newsgroup.
>
> SQL Anywhere Developer Community -
>
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
> SQL Anywhere Blog Center -
> http://www.sybase.com/sqlanyblogs
>
> <RLETT> wrote in message
> > news:4a6f1c8b.c4d.1681692777@sybase.com... Thanks for
> the info. Perhaps we can clarify this to... >
> > When we force tcpip on the server/engine the settings we
> > use are... I notice that our dobroadcast is different
> > than your dobroad. Should we change that?
> >
> > -gp 4096 -ti 0 -tl 0 -gd all -x
> > tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX;dobroadcast=no} -n
> <Enginename> >
> > Since UDP listener is not shut down based on our
> > switches, we communicate first through UDP. Does the
> > client broadcast that it is looking for a specific
> > engine name and is that what the listener is looking
> > for? Or does it listen for activity on the port and once
> > it see's activity it broadcasts the engine name. From
> there it connects tcpip... >
> > On the client we just pick tcpip as the protocal and
> > include the {HOST=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx} -ga -qi
> >
> > In a nutshell the server has a listener for the UDP
> > broadcast of the client. When we turn broadcast=no it
> > makes certain that it does not shut the engine down if
> > it notices another. The listener listens at the port
> > chosen for a signal, something predefined, is the engine
> > name? Or just that there is some activity at the port
> > and they go from there.
> >
> > Thanks...
> >
> >
> >> UDP to find the server, TCP for communications.
> >>
> >> -john.
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Smirnios
> >> Senior Software Developer
> >> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
> >>
> >> Whitepapers, TechDocs, bug fixes are all available
> through >> the iAnywhere Developer Community at
> >> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer
> >>
> >> RLETT wrote:
> >> > Thanks.... So its UDP, connectionless yes? And Not
> TCP. >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Rlett,
> >> >>
> >> >> Rlett wrote:
> >> >>> The server has an Engine name. Is that broadcast
> from >> >>> the server over the network? Or does the
> client which >> is >>> deployed on a workstation broadcast
> looking for the >> >>> engine name? And is this netbios,
> wins? >> >> The server starts up a UDP listener (on the
> same port >> as >> the TCP interface) to respond to UDP
> broadcasts >> looking >> for server names. You can
> disable this >> behaviour by using >> "-sb 0":
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/sb-database-dbserver.html
> >> >>> We can also force TCPIP and doing so the client
> >> through >>> a key looks knows the IP in addition to
> >> knowing the >>> engine name. But the server service has
> >> this parameter >>> tcpip{myip=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
> >> ;dobroadcast=no} >>> What does this specifically do??
> >> >> By default, the server will also look for other
> servers >> of >> the same name when it starts up (and if
> it detects >> them, >> it will state that the "engine
> name is already >> in use" >> and will shut down). To
> disable this behaviour >> , you >> should start with the
> server switch: >> >>
> >> >> -x tcpip(DOBROAD=no)
> >> >>
> >> >> (See:
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/dobroadcast-network-conparm.html
> >> >> )
> >> >>
> >> >> "MyIP" sets the network interface(s) that the server
> >> will >> bind to.
> >> >>
> >> >> (See:
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
http://dcx.sybase.com/1101en/dbadmin_en11/myip-network-conparm.html
> >> >> )
> >> >>
> >> >> ---
> >> >>
> >> >> Finally for completeness, if your server is
> configured >> not >> to listen to UDP broadcasts,
> "dblocate" will not >> be able >> to find your server and
> all clients MUST use >> the server's >> IP address when
> they try to connect. For >> efficiency >> reasons, you
> should also disable the UDP >> broadcast on the >> client
> when trying to connect to the >> database: >>
> >> >> -c "UID=dba;PWD=sql;...
> >> ;LINKS=tcpip(host=aaa.bbb.xxx.yyy >> ;dobroad=none)
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere
> >> >>
> >> >> iAnywhere Developer Community :
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
> >> >> iAnywhere Documentation :
> >> >> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals
> SQL >> >> Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
> >> >> Report a Bug/Open a Case :
> >> >> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/
>
>


David Fishburn [Sybase iAnywhere] Posted on 2009-10-13 19:49:21.0Z
Newsgroups: ianywhere.public.general
Subject: Re: Sybase Engine 10 - How does this communicate on the network?
From: "David Fishburn [Sybase iAnywhere]" <fishburn_spam_off@ianywhere.com>
References: <4a706a51$1@forums-3-dub.sybase.com> <4a70964c.2ba7.1681692777@sybase.com>
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RLET wrote in news:4a70964c.2ba7.1681692777@sybase.com of
ianywhere.public.general:

R> Here is a screen shot of or client and its "switchs". When
R> we "force tcpip" the client needs to be have it populated
R> like this and the ip where it needs to be.
R>

I would add on the server command line:
-x tcpip

And on the client connection parameters:
;links=tcpip(host=nameofmachinewheredbsrv11running)

This is only necessary if you started the server with:
-x tcpip(dobroadcast=no)

--
David Fishburn
Certified ASA Developer Version 8
iAnywhere Solutions - Sybase
Professional Services
Please only post to the newsgroup
Please ALWAYS include version and MORE importantly BUILD number with
EACH post (dbeng11 -v).

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