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Corruption on a Network Drive - How And Why?

8 posts in General Discussion Last posting was on 2009-07-28 19:23:27.0Z
RLETT Posted on 2009-07-24 20:15:17.0Z
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From: RLETT
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Subject: Corruption on a Network Drive - How And Why?
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I am looking for some information on how and why when our
databases, FAS is the product we make, and we use sybase,
how and why there is corruption when the databases are on a
network drive? I found an article that spoke about 4 bits in
front and four bits behind.

in my last note it indicates that it uses UDP, A
connectionless protocal. Is there no integrity check when it
is on a network drive...??

Thanks


"Kory Hodgson (Sybase iAnywhere)" <khodgson Posted on 2009-07-24 20:27:17.0Z
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Here is a document describing supported setups for databases on a network:

http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1034790

RLETT wrote:
> I am looking for some information on how and why when our
> databases, FAS is the product we make, and we use sybase,
> how and why there is corruption when the databases are on a
> network drive? I found an article that spoke about 4 bits in
> front and four bits behind.
>
> in my last note it indicates that it uses UDP, A
> connectionless protocal. Is there no integrity check when it
> is on a network drive...??
>
> Thanks


John Smirnios [Sybase] Posted on 2009-07-25 01:02:13.0Z
From: "John Smirnios [Sybase]" <smirnios_at_sybase.com>
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The communication protocol between client & server has nothing to do
with accessing files on a network drive. It's not clear to me why you
are relating the two.

You would need to describe your exact configuration (OS versions,
software versions, where files are located, etc) and the sort of
corruption (error messages, etc) you are encountering before I could
comment on what might possibly be going wrong.

What is the article you are talking about? The 4bits thing has no
obvious meaning to me.

-john.

--
John Smirnios
Senior Software Developer
iAnywhere Solutions Engineering

Whitepapers, TechDocs, bug fixes are all available through the iAnywhere
Developer Community at http://www.ianywhere.com/developer

RLETT wrote:
> I am looking for some information on how and why when our
> databases, FAS is the product we make, and we use sybase,
> how and why there is corruption when the databases are on a
> network drive? I found an article that spoke about 4 bits in
> front and four bits behind.
>
> in my last note it indicates that it uses UDP, A
> connectionless protocal. Is there no integrity check when it
> is on a network drive...??
>
> Thanks


RLETT Posted on 2009-07-27 21:18:46.0Z
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From: RLett
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Subject: Re: Corruption on a Network Drive - How And Why?
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I was poking around your website and came upon an article
that had some kind of info in it about four bits getting
misplaced and corruption comes. I wasnt able to find it
again, so therefore it would me nothing.

We use version ten for a network based database we sell with
our product... Windows OS...

We see lots of corruption with the databases from some
customers and we do recommend that it not be on a network
drive we just didn't know why. We would like to have
something in the support center that explains the
recommendation from Sybase.

> The communication protocol between client & server has
> nothing to do with accessing files on a network drive.
> It's not clear to me why you are relating the two.
>
> You would need to describe your exact configuration (OS
> versions, software versions, where files are located,
> etc) and the sort of corruption (error messages, etc) you
> are encountering before I could comment on what might
> possibly be going wrong.
>
> What is the article you are talking about? The 4bits thing
> has no obvious meaning to me.
>
> -john.
>
> --
> John Smirnios
> Senior Software Developer
> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
>
> Whitepapers, TechDocs, bug fixes are all available through
> the iAnywhere Developer Community at
> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer
>
> RLETT wrote:
> > I am looking for some information on how and why when
> > our databases, FAS is the product we make, and we use
> > sybase, how and why there is corruption when the
> > databases are on a network drive? I found an article
> > that spoke about 4 bits in front and four bits behind.
> >
> > in my last note it indicates that it uses UDP, A
> > connectionless protocal. Is there no integrity check
> > when it is on a network drive...??
> >
> > Thanks


Jeff Albion [Sybase iAnywhere] Posted on 2009-07-27 21:39:31.0Z
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RLett wrote:
> We see lots of corruption with the databases from some
> customers and we do recommend that it not be on a network
> drive we just didn't know why. We would like to have
> something in the support center that explains the
> recommendation from Sybase.

Kory's linked whitepaper on sybase.com explains the reason that we do
not recommend running a database stored on "the network" - packet
ordering is not guaranteed across a SMB/CIFS/"Windows Share" network,
and any network interruptions would result in failed I/O. The database
cannot tolerate these conditions since that would break many conditions
that are required to maintain transaction atomicity.

Note: the whitepaper doesn't limit itself to just "Windows Shares"
however since these same principles can be applied to other storage
mediums as well.

---

If you have an idea for a section to be added to the documentation, you
might want to consider making a recommendation at DocCommentXChange for
a new section to be included in a future version of SQL Anywhere. See:
http://dcx.sybase.com/

Cheers,

--
Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere

iAnywhere Developer Community :
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
iAnywhere Documentation : http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals
SQL Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
Report a Bug/Open a Case : http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


RLETT Posted on 2009-07-28 15:58:21.0Z
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We use Sybase 10 for the network version and and a single
user version. they way i read the whitepaper indicated that
for bothe our "network" and "stand alone" both should have
drives locally. There seems to be some confusion that
network, means network drive. Based on your explaination,
both would experience issues with it corruption.... Is that
correct?

> RLett wrote:
> > We see lots of corruption with the databases from some
> > customers and we do recommend that it not be on a
> > network drive we just didn't know why. We would like to
> > have something in the support center that explains the
> > recommendation from Sybase.
>
> Kory's linked whitepaper on sybase.com explains the reason
> that we do not recommend running a database stored on
> "the network" - packet ordering is not guaranteed across
> a SMB/CIFS/"Windows Share" network, and any network
> interruptions would result in failed I/O. The database
> cannot tolerate these conditions since that would break
> many conditions that are required to maintain transaction
> atomicity.
>
> Note: the whitepaper doesn't limit itself to just "Windows
> Shares" however since these same principles can be
> applied to other storage mediums as well.
>
> ---
>
> If you have an idea for a section to be added to the
> documentation, you might want to consider making a
> recommendation at DocCommentXChange for a new section to
> be included in a future version of SQL Anywhere. See:
> http://dcx.sybase.com/
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere
>
> iAnywhere Developer Community :
>
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
> iAnywhere Documentation :
> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals SQL
> Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
>
http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
> Report a Bug/Open a Case :
> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


John Smirnios [Sybase] Posted on 2009-07-28 19:22:42.0Z
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Subject: Re: Corruption on a Network Drive - How And Why?
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The database files should always be on a local drive *relative to the
server process*. If you are using a network server, the client & the
database server will be on different machines (communicating over the
network) but the database file should be on the same machine as the
database server.

Corruption of *files* accessed over a network share should really only
be possible if the server containing the file lost power. Corruption
should not occur so long as everything remains running (but if you lose
power, you might just not be able to recover or you could recover
"incorrectly" without noticing).

-john.
--
John Smirnios
Senior Software Developer
iAnywhere Solutions Engineering

Whitepapers, TechDocs, bug fixes are all available through the iAnywhere
Developer Community at http://www.ianywhere.com/developer

RLett wrote:
> We use Sybase 10 for the network version and and a single
> user version. they way i read the whitepaper indicated that
> for bothe our "network" and "stand alone" both should have
> drives locally. There seems to be some confusion that
> network, means network drive. Based on your explaination,
> both would experience issues with it corruption.... Is that
> correct?
>
>> RLett wrote:
>>> We see lots of corruption with the databases from some
>>> customers and we do recommend that it not be on a
>>> network drive we just didn't know why. We would like to
>>> have something in the support center that explains the
>>> recommendation from Sybase.
>> Kory's linked whitepaper on sybase.com explains the reason
>> that we do not recommend running a database stored on
>> "the network" - packet ordering is not guaranteed across
>> a SMB/CIFS/"Windows Share" network, and any network
>> interruptions would result in failed I/O. The database
>> cannot tolerate these conditions since that would break
>> many conditions that are required to maintain transaction
>> atomicity.
>>
>> Note: the whitepaper doesn't limit itself to just "Windows
>> Shares" however since these same principles can be
>> applied to other storage mediums as well.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> If you have an idea for a section to be added to the
>> documentation, you might want to consider making a
>> recommendation at DocCommentXChange for a new section to
>> be included in a future version of SQL Anywhere. See:
>> http://dcx.sybase.com/
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere
>>
>> iAnywhere Developer Community :
>>
> http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
>> iAnywhere Documentation :
>> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals SQL
>> Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
>>
> http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
>> Report a Bug/Open a Case :
>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


Jeff Albion [Sybase iAnywhere] Posted on 2009-07-28 19:23:27.0Z
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Subject: Re: Corruption on a Network Drive - How And Why?
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No, that is not correct.

We should be careful not to mix terms:

1. "Network Server" - A database server that runs on a machine, and
accepts client connections over the network (e.g. TCP/IP).
2. "Personal Server" - A database server that runs on a machine, but
only local connections can be made
3. "Database File" - A .db/.log file that represents a database. This
file is accessed by either a network server or a personal server and
allows clients to connect.

The whitepaper makes reference to only where the "Database File" can
reside - this should only be placed on a local resource (hard disk), as
opposed to a network store (\\MyHostMachine\SomeShare). This does NOT
relate to how clients connect to the database server afterwards - that
is a separate concept.

I hope that helps to clear up some of the confusion.

Regards,

RLett wrote:
> We use Sybase 10 for the network version and and a single
> user version. they way i read the whitepaper indicated that
> for bothe our "network" and "stand alone" both should have
> drives locally. There seems to be some confusion that
> network, means network drive. Based on your explaination,
> both would experience issues with it corruption.... Is that
> correct?

--
Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere

iAnywhere Developer Community :
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
iAnywhere Documentation : http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals
SQL Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
Report a Bug/Open a Case : http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/