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reorg ad update statistics

9 posts in General Discussion Last posting was on 2009-08-31 22:11:37.0Z
Rajasekhar Reddy Posted on 2009-08-23 23:34:09.0Z
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From: Rajasekhar Reddy
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Subject: reorg ad update statistics
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Hello,

We are running reorg and update stats on my database
objects every weekend. It has been taking more than 12 hrs.
I am not clear on this whether it is accurate ? or taking
long ?
Is there any way to find out estimation time ? and compare ?

Thanks in advance.


Cory Sane [TeamSybase] Posted on 2009-08-24 11:46:21.0Z
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Depending on the size of your data anything is possible.
Of course you give us NO DETAILS.
What version of ASE are you running?
Have you used the SAMPLING option?
Which level of reorg are you running?


--
Cory Sane
[TeamSybase]
Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0

"Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message news:4a91d1f1.5a05.1681692777@sybase.com...
> Hello,
>
> We are running reorg and update stats on my database
> objects every weekend. It has been taking more than 12 hrs.
> I am not clear on this whether it is accurate ? or taking
> long ?
> Is there any way to find out estimation time ? and compare ?
>
> Thanks in advance.


Rajasekhar Reddy Posted on 2009-08-28 01:30:12.0Z
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Version - ASE 12.5.4 ESD#3
data size - around 150GB

We are doing REORG COMPACT, then after UPDATE
STATISTICS...We havent tried sampling yet.

> Depending on the size of your data anything is possible.
> Of course you give us NO DETAILS.
> What version of ASE are you running?
> Have you used the SAMPLING option?
> Which level of reorg are you running?
>
>
> --
> Cory Sane
> [TeamSybase]
> Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0
> "Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message
> > news:4a91d1f1.5a05.1681692777@sybase.com... Hello,
> >
> > We are running reorg and update stats on my database
> > objects every weekend. It has been taking more than 12
> > hrs. I am not clear on this whether it is accurate ? or
> > taking long ?
> > Is there any way to find out estimation time ? and
> > compare ?
> > Thanks in advance.


Cory Sane [TeamSybase] Posted on 2009-08-28 05:42:47.0Z
From: "Cory Sane [TeamSybase]" <cory!=sane>
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First)
Every system is unique... 12 hours might be right for your platform... You also mentioned 12 hours for both... Which command is
really at fault? Is 150GB one table or many?


Second)
Wow -- I've never used the Compact option...
Are you getting a High number of Forwarded Rows? These are coming from updates and every record update of a null value to some
other value can be a forward(Duh)...
Can you have someone tune the application to avoid these? (Duh)
Or switch to APL mode on those tables?
Or Manage it with exp_row_size or reservepagegap?
http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/topic/com.sybase.infocenter.dc00841.1502/html/phys_tune/phys_tune96.htm
Acording to Rob V.'s Quick Reference Guide... Compact only deals with the forwarded rows and reclaim space. Reclaim space only
deals with the datapages of the table. Most people use reorg for the index improvements. You are using just the opposite
features. Would "reorg rebuild table index" meet your needs? I have found the "table+index" option to be relatively fast and
non-instrusive.

( I have seen many systems where a stub record is built then updates are used to populate the non-key columns... Find the
average or "common" record size after the updates have been completed and use that value for exp_row_size)

Third)
"Update Statistics" is not helping non-leading columns of the indexes.
"Update Index Statistics" will create histograms for non-leading columns which is important in most cases !!!!!
"with sampling= [percentage] percent" works on non-leading columns" (Very Useful)
"with consumers= #_consumers" forces i/o parallelism. (Very Useful)


--
Cory Sane
[TeamSybase]
Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0

"Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message news:4a973324.45c2.1681692777@sybase.com...
> Version - ASE 12.5.4 ESD#3
> data size - around 150GB
>
> We are doing REORG COMPACT, then after UPDATE
> STATISTICS...We havent tried sampling yet.
>
>
>
>> Depending on the size of your data anything is possible.
>> Of course you give us NO DETAILS.
>> What version of ASE are you running?
>> Have you used the SAMPLING option?
>> Which level of reorg are you running?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cory Sane
>> [TeamSybase]
>> Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0
>> "Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message
>> > news:4a91d1f1.5a05.1681692777@sybase.com... Hello,
>> >
>> > We are running reorg and update stats on my database
>> > objects every weekend. It has been taking more than 12
>> > hrs. I am not clear on this whether it is accurate ? or
>> > taking long ?
>> > Is there any way to find out estimation time ? and
>> > compare ?
>> > Thanks in advance.


Rajasekhar Reddy Posted on 2009-08-29 23:01:41.0Z
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From: Rajasekhar Reddy
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.general
Subject: Re: reorg ad update statistics
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> First)
> Every system is unique... 12 hours might be right for
> your platform... You also mentioned 12 hours for both...
> Which command is really at fault?

what do you mean by this ?

>Is 150GB one table or many?

Its not single table, almost 4000 objects are there.

>
>
> Second)
> Wow -- I've never used the Compact option...
> Are you getting a High number of Forwarded Rows?

No Idea on this. How to check that ?

These are
> coming from updates and every record update of a null
> value to some other value can be a forward(Duh)...
> Can you have someone tune the application to avoid these?
> (Duh) Or switch to APL mode on those tables?
> Or Manage it with exp_row_size or reservepagegap?
>
http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/topic/com.sybase.infocenter.dc00841.1502/html/phys_tune/phys_tune96.htm
> Acording to Rob V.'s Quick Reference Guide... Compact only
> deals with the forwarded rows and reclaim space. Reclaim
> space only deals with the datapages of the table. Most
> people use reorg for the index improvements. You are
> using just the opposite features.
Would "reorg rebuild table index" meet your needs?

How can I make decision which option of REORG apt for my
database objects ?

I have found the
> "table+index" option to be relatively fast and
> non-instrusive.
>
> ( I have seen many systems where a stub record is built
> then updates are used to populate the non-key columns...
> Find the average or "common" record size after the
> updates have been completed and use that value for
> exp_row_size)
>
> Third)
> "Update Statistics" is not helping non-leading columns of
> the indexes. "Update Index Statistics" will create
> histograms for non-leading columns which is important in
> most cases !!!!! "with sampling= [percentage] percent"
> works on non-leading columns" (Very Useful) "with
> consumers= #_consumers" forces i/o parallelism. (Very
> Useful)

Lastly, Can I get some assistance to tune my weekend
housekeeping jod(REORG compact and update object stats) ? I
meant, to change the options of REORG and update stats.

Thanks in advance.

>
>
> --
> Cory Sane
> [TeamSybase]
> Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0
> "Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message
> > news:4a973324.45c2.1681692777@sybase.com... Version -
> > ASE 12.5.4 ESD#3 data size - around 150GB
> >
> > We are doing REORG COMPACT, then after UPDATE
> > STATISTICS...We havent tried sampling yet.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Depending on the size of your data anything is
> possible. >> Of course you give us NO DETAILS.
> >> What version of ASE are you running?
> >> Have you used the SAMPLING option?
> >> Which level of reorg are you running?
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cory Sane
> >> [TeamSybase]
> >> Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0
> >> "Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message
> >> > news:4a91d1f1.5a05.1681692777@sybase.com... Hello,
> >> >
> >> > We are running reorg and update stats on my
> database >> > objects every weekend. It has been taking
> more than 12 >> > hrs. I am not clear on this whether it
> is accurate ? or >> > taking long ?
> >> > Is there any way to find out estimation time ? and
> >> > compare ?
> >> > Thanks in advance.
>


Cory Sane [TeamSybase] Posted on 2009-08-31 21:19:36.0Z
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Mr. Reddy,

Depending on your hardware and server, 12 hours might be good for those commands. Which command is consuming most of the 12
hours (Reog or Update stats)? What is the ddl of your table that is taking the most amount of time?

To find the forwarded rowcount, there are two methods...
http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/topic/com.sybase.infocenter.dc00841.1502/html/phys_tune/phys_tune101.htm
http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/topic/com.sybase.infocenter.dc00841.1502/html/phys_tune/phys_tune100.htm

I would not run "reorg compact" on any table that does not need it. You will need to figure out how many forwarded rows each
table can handle before query plans start suffering. Each table may be unique, too.

"reorg rebuild tablename indexname" only rebuilds the index which may be a must faster option.

I fear your best option is to read the "performance and tuning" manual or get a Sybase Inc pre-sales engineer to do a quick
visit.

Why did you start running "reorg compact"? did it solve a problem?
What is the complete syntax of your "update stats" command?

Tuning is unique to each system so I do not have a blind answer to "What should I do?"

--
Cory Sane
[TeamSybase]
Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0

"Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message news:4a99b355.1a4d.1681692777@sybase.com...
>> First)
>> Every system is unique... 12 hours might be right for
>> your platform... You also mentioned 12 hours for both...
>> Which command is really at fault?
>
> what do you mean by this ?
>
>>Is 150GB one table or many?
>
> Its not single table, almost 4000 objects are there.
>
>>
>>
>> Second)
>> Wow -- I've never used the Compact option...
>> Are you getting a High number of Forwarded Rows?
>
> No Idea on this. How to check that ?
>
> These are
>> coming from updates and every record update of a null
>> value to some other value can be a forward(Duh)...
>> Can you have someone tune the application to avoid these?
>> (Duh) Or switch to APL mode on those tables?
>> Or Manage it with exp_row_size or reservepagegap?
>>
> http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/topic/com.sybase.infocenter.dc00841.1502/html/phys_tune/phys_tune96.htm
>> Acording to Rob V.'s Quick Reference Guide... Compact only
>> deals with the forwarded rows and reclaim space. Reclaim
>> space only deals with the datapages of the table. Most
>> people use reorg for the index improvements. You are
>> using just the opposite features.
> Would "reorg rebuild table index" meet your needs?
>
> How can I make decision which option of REORG apt for my
> database objects ?
>
> I have found the
>> "table+index" option to be relatively fast and
>> non-instrusive.
>>
>> ( I have seen many systems where a stub record is built
>> then updates are used to populate the non-key columns...
>> Find the average or "common" record size after the
>> updates have been completed and use that value for
>> exp_row_size)
>>
>> Third)
>> "Update Statistics" is not helping non-leading columns of
>> the indexes. "Update Index Statistics" will create
>> histograms for non-leading columns which is important in
>> most cases !!!!! "with sampling= [percentage] percent"
>> works on non-leading columns" (Very Useful) "with
>> consumers= #_consumers" forces i/o parallelism. (Very
>> Useful)
>
> Lastly, Can I get some assistance to tune my weekend
> housekeeping jod(REORG compact and update object stats) ? I
> meant, to change the options of REORG and update stats.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cory Sane
>> [TeamSybase]
>> Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0
>> "Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message
>> > news:4a973324.45c2.1681692777@sybase.com... Version -
>> > ASE 12.5.4 ESD#3 data size - around 150GB
>> >
>> > We are doing REORG COMPACT, then after UPDATE
>> > STATISTICS...We havent tried sampling yet.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Depending on the size of your data anything is
>> possible. >> Of course you give us NO DETAILS.
>> >> What version of ASE are you running?
>> >> Have you used the SAMPLING option?
>> >> Which level of reorg are you running?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Cory Sane
>> >> [TeamSybase]
>> >> Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0
>> >> "Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message
>> >> > news:4a91d1f1.5a05.1681692777@sybase.com... Hello,
>> >> >
>> >> > We are running reorg and update stats on my
>> database >> > objects every weekend. It has been taking
>> more than 12 >> > hrs. I am not clear on this whether it
>> is accurate ? or >> > taking long ?
>> >> > Is there any way to find out estimation time ? and
>> >> > compare ?
>> >> > Thanks in advance.
>>


Sherlock, Kevin [TeamSybase] Posted on 2009-08-31 22:11:37.0Z
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Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.general
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I don't like the code documented in that first link
(http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/topic/com.sybase.infocenter.dc00841.1502/html/phys_tune/phys_tune101.htm)
. It doesn't account for partitioned tables appropriately. here is an
attempt at a correction:

----------------------------------------------------------------
select objectname = object_name(id),
partitionname = (select name from syspartitions p
where p.id = t.id and p.indid = t.indid and p.partitionid =
t.partitionid)
, forwrowcnt, datarowsize
, exprowsize = (select i.exp_rowsize from sysindexes i
where i.id = t.id and i.indid = t.indid)
into #temptable
from systabstats t
where id > 100 and indid IN (0,1)

exec sp_autoformat #temptable

"Cory Sane [TeamSybase]" <cory!=sane> wrote in message
news:4a9c3e68@forums-1-dub...
> Mr. Reddy,
>
> Depending on your hardware and server, 12 hours might be good for those
> commands. Which command is consuming most of the 12 hours (Reog or
> Update stats)? What is the ddl of your table that is taking the most
> amount of time?
>
> To find the forwarded rowcount, there are two methods...
> http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/topic/com.sybase.infocenter.dc00841.1502/html/phys_tune/phys_tune101.htm
> http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/topic/com.sybase.infocenter.dc00841.1502/html/phys_tune/phys_tune100.htm
>
> I would not run "reorg compact" on any table that does not need it. You
> will need to figure out how many forwarded rows each table can handle
> before query plans start suffering. Each table may be unique, too.
>
> "reorg rebuild tablename indexname" only rebuilds the index which may be a
> must faster option.
>
> I fear your best option is to read the "performance and tuning" manual or
> get a Sybase Inc pre-sales engineer to do a quick visit.
>
> Why did you start running "reorg compact"? did it solve a problem?
> What is the complete syntax of your "update stats" command?
>
> Tuning is unique to each system so I do not have a blind answer to "What
> should I do?"
>
> --
> Cory Sane
> [TeamSybase]
> Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0
> "Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message
> news:4a99b355.1a4d.1681692777@sybase.com...
>>> First)
>>> Every system is unique... 12 hours might be right for
>>> your platform... You also mentioned 12 hours for both...
>>> Which command is really at fault?
>>
>> what do you mean by this ?
>>
>>>Is 150GB one table or many?
>>
>> Its not single table, almost 4000 objects are there.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Second)
>>> Wow -- I've never used the Compact option...
>>> Are you getting a High number of Forwarded Rows?
>>
>> No Idea on this. How to check that ?
>>
>> These are
>>> coming from updates and every record update of a null
>>> value to some other value can be a forward(Duh)...
>>> Can you have someone tune the application to avoid these?
>>> (Duh) Or switch to APL mode on those tables?
>>> Or Manage it with exp_row_size or reservepagegap?
>>>
>> http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/topic/com.sybase.infocenter.dc00841.1502/html/phys_tune/phys_tune96.htm
>>> Acording to Rob V.'s Quick Reference Guide... Compact only
>>> deals with the forwarded rows and reclaim space. Reclaim
>>> space only deals with the datapages of the table. Most
>>> people use reorg for the index improvements. You are
>>> using just the opposite features.
>> Would "reorg rebuild table index" meet your needs?
>>
>> How can I make decision which option of REORG apt for my
>> database objects ?
>>
>> I have found the
>>> "table+index" option to be relatively fast and
>>> non-instrusive.
>>>
>>> ( I have seen many systems where a stub record is built
>>> then updates are used to populate the non-key columns...
>>> Find the average or "common" record size after the
>>> updates have been completed and use that value for
>>> exp_row_size)
>>>
>>> Third)
>>> "Update Statistics" is not helping non-leading columns of
>>> the indexes. "Update Index Statistics" will create
>>> histograms for non-leading columns which is important in
>>> most cases !!!!! "with sampling= [percentage] percent"
>>> works on non-leading columns" (Very Useful) "with
>>> consumers= #_consumers" forces i/o parallelism. (Very
>>> Useful)
>>
>> Lastly, Can I get some assistance to tune my weekend
>> housekeeping jod(REORG compact and update object stats) ? I
>> meant, to change the options of REORG and update stats.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cory Sane
>>> [TeamSybase]
>>> Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0
>>> "Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message
>>> > news:4a973324.45c2.1681692777@sybase.com... Version -
>>> > ASE 12.5.4 ESD#3 data size - around 150GB
>>> >
>>> > We are doing REORG COMPACT, then after UPDATE
>>> > STATISTICS...We havent tried sampling yet.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Depending on the size of your data anything is
>>> possible. >> Of course you give us NO DETAILS.
>>> >> What version of ASE are you running?
>>> >> Have you used the SAMPLING option?
>>> >> Which level of reorg are you running?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Cory Sane
>>> >> [TeamSybase]
>>> >> Certified Sybase Associate DBA for ASE 15.0
>>> >> "Rajasekhar Reddy" wrote in message
>>> >> > news:4a91d1f1.5a05.1681692777@sybase.com... Hello,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > We are running reorg and update stats on my
>>> database >> > objects every weekend. It has been taking
>>> more than 12 >> > hrs. I am not clear on this whether it
>>> is accurate ? or >> > taking long ?
>>> >> > Is there any way to find out estimation time ? and
>>> >> > compare ?
>>> >> > Thanks in advance.
>>>
>


Liezl Posted on 2009-08-25 12:19:28.0Z
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From: Liezl
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.general
Subject: Re: reorg ad update statistics
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> Hello,
>
> We are running reorg and update stats on my database
> objects every weekend. It has been taking more than 12
> hrs. I am not clear on this whether it is accurate ? or
> taking long ?
> Is there any way to find out estimation time ? and compare
> ?
>
> Thanks in advance.

Since it's taking quite some time, please make sure there is
at least enough space available, I think the rule says at
least the same space available on top of the currently
occupied space per table being ReOrg'ed.

Also check that the txn logs are dumped regularly, so that
this at least is not the issue.

You may also have another batch process running against the
server or those tables at the same time?

Large table may take quite a bit of time, doing both
processes.
Perhaps you can split the REORG out from the UPDATE STATS
job and run the REORG first? then Update stats/update index
stats afterwards
L

L


Vivek Kak Posted on 2009-08-26 08:53:49.0Z
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From: Vivek Kak
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Subject: Re: reorg ad update statistics
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Hi ,

In addition to the points mentioned below, you can identify
the trending behaviour for timings for each table and then
you can decide accordingly w.r.t scheduling of jobs. If you
are regularly exceeding the maintainance window, then you
may want to schedule the tasks based on table size .

HTH,
Vivek

> > Hello,
> >
> > We are running reorg and update stats on my database
> > objects every weekend. It has been taking more than 12
> > hrs. I am not clear on this whether it is accurate ? or
> > taking long ?
> > Is there any way to find out estimation time ? and
> > compare ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> Since it's taking quite some time, please make sure there
> is at least enough space available, I think the rule says
> at least the same space available on top of the currently
> occupied space per table being ReOrg'ed.
>
> Also check that the txn logs are dumped regularly, so that
> this at least is not the issue.
>
> You may also have another batch process running against
> the server or those tables at the same time?
>
> Large table may take quite a bit of time, doing both
> processes.
> Perhaps you can split the REORG out from the UPDATE STATS
> job and run the REORG first? then Update stats/update
> index stats afterwards
> L
>
> L