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Sybase version issues

8 posts in General Discussion Last posting was on 2009-10-12 21:44:09.0Z
James C Posted on 2009-10-09 15:56:10.0Z
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Hi!

There is a need to install a Sybase database in version 12.5
onto a server running Sybase version 15. Would you know if
this would cause any uncertainties or even problems?

In addition, the database version 15 is arranged to make
Remote Procedure Calls (RPC) to a database under version in
12.5 on a different server. Would this be acceptable? Any
issues you are aware?

I thank you sincerely for any thoughts and replies.


"Mark A. Parsons" <iron_horse Posted on 2009-10-09 16:45:57.0Z
From: "Mark A. Parsons" <iron_horse@no_spamola.compuserve.com>
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Which OS?

If Windows (without virtualization) ... you'll probably have issues running 2 different versions of ASE on the same machine.

If Unix, Linux or Windows (w/ virtualization) ... sure, you can run different copies of ASE. For the Unix/Linux
environments you'll want to install the ASE software under different directories (ie, you'll have different values for
$SYBASE). For Windows ... you're easiest option is to run a different version of ASE under a different (virtualized)
Windows environment.

As for the RPC stuff ... 15 to 12.5 shouldn't be a problem. Why, are you experiencing any problems, and if so, what are
the problems?

James C wrote:
> Hi!
>
> There is a need to install a Sybase database in version 12.5
> onto a server running Sybase version 15. Would you know if
> this would cause any uncertainties or even problems?
>
> In addition, the database version 15 is arranged to make
> Remote Procedure Calls (RPC) to a database under version in
> 12.5 on a different server. Would this be acceptable? Any
> issues you are aware?
>
> I thank you sincerely for any thoughts and replies.


J Posted on 2009-10-09 17:16:31.0Z
From: jtotally_bogus@sbcglobal.net (J)
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Subject: Re: Sybase version issues
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On 9 Oct 2009 09:45:57 -0700, "Mark A. Parsons"
<iron_horse@no_spamola.compuserve.com> wrote:

I do this all the time. The Windows issues are related to the Start
dialogs and the path settings etc. I like to save the path for my
primary install and restore the path to this after other installs. I
copy the sybase.bat files from the different %sybase% directories to a
location and invoke the different version like this:

cmd window: ase15x or ase125x etc. assuming this was the naming and I
put the .bat files in a common location else:
cd \sybase\ase15x
sybase.bat will get proper settings for this release.

I don't use the Start menu's for very much.

Jay

>Which OS?
>
>If Windows (without virtualization) ... you'll probably have issues running 2 different versions of ASE on the same machine.
>
>If Unix, Linux or Windows (w/ virtualization) ... sure, you can run different copies of ASE. For the Unix/Linux
>environments you'll want to install the ASE software under different directories (ie, you'll have different values for
>$SYBASE). For Windows ... you're easiest option is to run a different version of ASE under a different (virtualized)
>Windows environment.
>
>As for the RPC stuff ... 15 to 12.5 shouldn't be a problem. Why, are you experiencing any problems, and if so, what are
>the problems?
>
>James C wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> There is a need to install a Sybase database in version 12.5
>> onto a server running Sybase version 15. Would you know if
>> this would cause any uncertainties or even problems?
>>
>> In addition, the database version 15 is arranged to make
>> Remote Procedure Calls (RPC) to a database under version in
>> 12.5 on a different server. Would this be acceptable? Any
>> issues you are aware?
>>
>> I thank you sincerely for any thoughts and replies.


"Mark A. Parsons" <iron_horse Posted on 2009-10-09 18:10:40.0Z
From: "Mark A. Parsons" <iron_horse@no_spamola.compuserve.com>
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The problem I have with running multiple versions of ASE in Windows is trying to get various 3rd party apps to source
the correct set of environment variables during startup. Many of them tend to run with the (system) variables defined
at the OS level ... which is a pain in the keister to have to change each time I want to run an app with a different ASE
version.

Obviously (?) using Windows Services to start various ASE servers has the same problem ... using the correct set of
environment variables ... though this can be worked around by forgoing Services in favor of the runserver *.bat files
(or even rewriting the Services calls).

Doable ... just a pain in the keister compared to Unix/Linux.

J wrote:
> On 9 Oct 2009 09:45:57 -0700, "Mark A. Parsons"
> <iron_horse@no_spamola.compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> I do this all the time. The Windows issues are related to the Start
> dialogs and the path settings etc. I like to save the path for my
> primary install and restore the path to this after other installs. I
> copy the sybase.bat files from the different %sybase% directories to a
> location and invoke the different version like this:
>
> cmd window: ase15x or ase125x etc. assuming this was the naming and I
> put the .bat files in a common location else:
> cd \sybase\ase15x
> sybase.bat will get proper settings for this release.
>
> I don't use the Start menu's for very much.
>
> Jay
>
>> Which OS?
>>
>> If Windows (without virtualization) ... you'll probably have issues running 2 different versions of ASE on the same machine.
>>
>> If Unix, Linux or Windows (w/ virtualization) ... sure, you can run different copies of ASE. For the Unix/Linux
>> environments you'll want to install the ASE software under different directories (ie, you'll have different values for
>> $SYBASE). For Windows ... you're easiest option is to run a different version of ASE under a different (virtualized)
>> Windows environment.
>>
>> As for the RPC stuff ... 15 to 12.5 shouldn't be a problem. Why, are you experiencing any problems, and if so, what are
>> the problems?
>>
>> James C wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> There is a need to install a Sybase database in version 12.5
>>> onto a server running Sybase version 15. Would you know if
>>> this would cause any uncertainties or even problems?
>>>
>>> In addition, the database version 15 is arranged to make
>>> Remote Procedure Calls (RPC) to a database under version in
>>> 12.5 on a different server. Would this be acceptable? Any
>>> issues you are aware?
>>>
>>> I thank you sincerely for any thoughts and replies.
>


James C Posted on 2009-10-12 14:45:37.0Z
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Thanks for your helpful comments.

> As for the RPC stuff ... 15 to 12.5 shouldn't be a
> problem. Why, are you experiencing any problems, and if
> so, what are the problems?

The white paper "RPC Proxy Tables: Usage and Results"
(http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1029418) seems to suggest
that.

"ASE may return different results from the proxy tables
against remote procedures (RPC) depending on difference in
the five conditions; the results you obtain can also depend
on the ASE version in use. So we should consider all the
components for developing applications on a given ASE
version. "

Did I miss the point?

> Which OS?
>
> If Windows (without virtualization) ... you'll probably
> have issues running 2 different versions of ASE on the
> same machine.
>
> If Unix, Linux or Windows (w/ virtualization) ... sure,
> you can run different copies of ASE. For the Unix/Linux
> environments you'll want to install the ASE software under
> different directories (ie, you'll have different values
> for $SYBASE). For Windows ... you're easiest option is
> to run a different version of ASE under a different
> (virtualized) Windows environment.
>
> As for the RPC stuff ... 15 to 12.5 shouldn't be a
> problem. Why, are you experiencing any problems, and if
> so, what are the problems?
>
> James C wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > There is a need to install a Sybase database in version
> > 12.5 onto a server running Sybase version 15. Would you
> > know if this would cause any uncertainties or even
> > problems?
> > In addition, the database version 15 is arranged to make
> > Remote Procedure Calls (RPC) to a database under version
> > in 12.5 on a different server. Would this be acceptable?
> > Any issues you are aware?
> >
> > I thank you sincerely for any thoughts and replies.


"Mark A. Parsons" <iron_horse Posted on 2009-10-12 15:58:34.0Z
From: "Mark A. Parsons" <iron_horse@no_spamola.compuserve.com>
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James C wrote:
> Thanks for your helpful comments.
>
>> As for the RPC stuff ... 15 to 12.5 shouldn't be a
>> problem. Why, are you experiencing any problems, and if
>> so, what are the problems?
>
> The white paper "RPC Proxy Tables: Usage and Results"
> (http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1029418) seems to suggest
> that.
>
> "ASE may return different results from the proxy tables
> against remote procedures (RPC) depending on difference in
> the five conditions; the results you obtain can also depend
> on the ASE version in use. So we should consider all the
> components for developing applications on a given ASE
> version. "
>
> Did I miss the point?

Your original post mentioned RPCs from ASE 15 to ASE 12.5 and some general questions about feasibility.

You asked:

1 - Would this be acceptable?

The technical answer is "Yes, this is *doable*.".

Whether or not this is *acceptable* in your environment is going to depend on your security requirements (logins, data
access/sharing) for various logins against the various dataservers, as well as your performance requirements. This is a
decision that you have to make, and then design your system(s) accordingly.

2 - Any issues you are aware of?

Well, technically the answer is "Yes, there are tons of issues regarding proxy tables that reference RPCs." ... but all
of the issues I'm aware of come down to design & coding 'issues':

- login security
- data access/sharing
- complexity of RPCs, including their input parameters and results set(s)
- the designer/coder's knowledge of how proxy tables and RPCs interact

The document you reference (1029418) goes into some detail on 'issues' (and their workarounds) that arise from using
different versions of ASE [you don't give specific versions that you're using so I have no idea if you're affected by
anything in the document], plus what I'd call 'design & coding' issues.

And while it's usually not mentioned (very much), any time you pass commands and data between dataservers you incur
additional overhead ... overhead which can degrade performance. Whether or not this performance degradation is
'acceptable' is up to the local user requirements.

So ...

- Will a newbie/novice with little understanding of proxy/RPC interaction run into issues? Probably.

- Is it possible to use ASE-15-proxy-to-ASE-12.5-RPC setups? Yes.

- Is it possible that you may run across a proxy/RPC bug in ASE? Yes.

- Is it possible to implement ASE-15-proxy-to-ASE-12.5-RPC setups without problems/issues? Yes.

- Will you run into issues with ASE-15-proxy-to-ASE-12.5.RPC setups? *shrug* Does the document (1029418) make sense to
you? What is your experience with ASE, proxy tables, and RPCs? Have you tried setting up the desired proxy/RPC
setups that you need? Have you run into any issues and if so, can you provide details?

-----------

So back to your original post ...

Your questions come off as high-level, is-this-doable questions.

You didn't post any details regarding your experience/knowledge with ASE, proxy tables or RPCs.

You didn't mention if you were actually having any issues.

Generally speaking, what you ask *is* doable.

Will the proposed proxy/RPC interaction be 'acceptable' depends on your security and performance requirements.

Will there be any 'issues' depends your skill/knowledge level.


James C Posted on 2009-10-12 17:56:01.0Z
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Good answer to my unclear question. It does give me some
clue.

To access a sybase database remotely, would you suggest web
services or remote procedure call using proxy table?

I would like to find a way that is relatively easy,
reliable, efficient, especially when the remote sybase
server is in a lower version.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks in advance.

> James C wrote:
> > Thanks for your helpful comments.
> >
> >> As for the RPC stuff ... 15 to 12.5 shouldn't be a
> >> problem. Why, are you experiencing any problems, and
> if >> so, what are the problems?
> >
> > The white paper "RPC Proxy Tables: Usage and Results"
> > (http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1029418) seems to
> > suggest that.
> >
> > "ASE may return different results from the proxy tables
> > against remote procedures (RPC) depending on difference
> > in the five conditions; the results you obtain can also
> > depend on the ASE version in use. So we should consider
> > all the components for developing applications on a
> > given ASE version. "
> >
> > Did I miss the point?
>
> Your original post mentioned RPCs from ASE 15 to ASE 12.5
> and some general questions about feasibility.
>
> You asked:
>
> 1 - Would this be acceptable?
>
> The technical answer is "Yes, this is *doable*.".
>
> Whether or not this is *acceptable* in your environment is
> going to depend on your security requirements (logins,
> data access/sharing) for various logins against the
> various dataservers, as well as your performance
> requirements. This is a decision that you have to make,
> and then design your system(s) accordingly.
>
> 2 - Any issues you are aware of?
>
> Well, technically the answer is "Yes, there are tons of
> issues regarding proxy tables that reference RPCs." ...
> but all of the issues I'm aware of come down to design &
> coding 'issues':
>
> - login security
> - data access/sharing
> - complexity of RPCs, including their input parameters and
> results set(s) - the designer/coder's knowledge of how
> proxy tables and RPCs interact
>
> The document you reference (1029418) goes into some detail
> on 'issues' (and their workarounds) that arise from using
> different versions of ASE [you don't give specific
> versions that you're using so I have no idea if you're
> affected by anything in the document], plus what I'd call
> 'design & coding' issues.
>
> And while it's usually not mentioned (very much), any time
> you pass commands and data between dataservers you incur
> additional overhead ... overhead which can degrade
> performance. Whether or not this performance degradation
> is 'acceptable' is up to the local user requirements.
>
> So ...
>
> - Will a newbie/novice with little understanding of
> proxy/RPC interaction run into issues? Probably.
>
> - Is it possible to use ASE-15-proxy-to-ASE-12.5-RPC
> setups? Yes.
>
> - Is it possible that you may run across a proxy/RPC bug
> in ASE? Yes.
>
> - Is it possible to implement ASE-15-proxy-to-ASE-12.5-RPC
> setups without problems/issues? Yes.
>
> - Will you run into issues with
> ASE-15-proxy-to-ASE-12.5.RPC setups? *shrug* Does the
> document (1029418) make sense to
> you? What is your experience with ASE, proxy tables,
> and RPCs? Have you tried setting up the desired proxy/RPC
> setups that you need? Have you run into any issues and if
> so, can you provide details?
>
> -----------
>
> So back to your original post ...
>
> Your questions come off as high-level, is-this-doable
> questions.
>
> You didn't post any details regarding your
> experience/knowledge with ASE, proxy tables or RPCs.
>
> You didn't mention if you were actually having any issues.
>
> Generally speaking, what you ask *is* doable.
>
> Will the proposed proxy/RPC interaction be 'acceptable'
> depends on your security and performance requirements.
>
> Will there be any 'issues' depends your skill/knowledge
> level.


"Mark A. Parsons" <iron_horse Posted on 2009-10-12 21:44:09.0Z
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James C wrote:
> To access a sybase database remotely, would you suggest web
> services or remote procedure call using proxy table?

What do you mean by 'access a sybase database remotely'?

How do you classify a web service (or any application for that matter) connecting directly to a database as 'remote access'?

If you're using an ASE proxy table to reference a proc in another ASE ... what application is serving as the client of
the ASE with the proxy? [Application_? -> ASE/proxy -> ASE/proc] Why can't Application_? connect directly to the
ASE/proc instance thus bypassing the ASE/proxy instance?

As for a suggestions on how to design your environment ... *shrug* ... you haven't provided any details of what your
application/service/database requirements are.

> I would like to find a way that is relatively easy,
> reliable, efficient, especially when the remote sybase
> server is in a lower version.

(relatively) easy? application connects directly to the dataserver with the stored proc

reliable? application connects directly to the dataserver with the stored proc

efficient? application connects directly to the dataserver with the stored proc

------------

You keep bringing up the question of how best to access a 'remote sybase server', but you haven't provided any
justification for *WHY* you have/need to use another ASE (w/proxy tables) to access said 'remote sybase server'.

Why can't your application(s) connect directly to this 'remote sybase server'?

Why the desire to complicate your environment by using one ASE dataserver (with proxies) as a front-end to another ASE
dataserver (with stored procs)?



> Look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>> James C wrote:
>>> Thanks for your helpful comments.
>>>
>>>> As for the RPC stuff ... 15 to 12.5 shouldn't be a
>>>> problem. Why, are you experiencing any problems, and
>> if >> so, what are the problems?
>>> The white paper "RPC Proxy Tables: Usage and Results"
>>> (http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1029418) seems to
>>> suggest that.
>>>
>>> "ASE may return different results from the proxy tables
>>> against remote procedures (RPC) depending on difference
>>> in the five conditions; the results you obtain can also
>>> depend on the ASE version in use. So we should consider
>>> all the components for developing applications on a
>>> given ASE version. "
>>>
>>> Did I miss the point?
>> Your original post mentioned RPCs from ASE 15 to ASE 12.5
>> and some general questions about feasibility.
>>
>> You asked:
>>
>> 1 - Would this be acceptable?
>>
>> The technical answer is "Yes, this is *doable*.".
>>
>> Whether or not this is *acceptable* in your environment is
>> going to depend on your security requirements (logins,
>> data access/sharing) for various logins against the
>> various dataservers, as well as your performance
>> requirements. This is a decision that you have to make,
>> and then design your system(s) accordingly.
>>
>> 2 - Any issues you are aware of?
>>
>> Well, technically the answer is "Yes, there are tons of
>> issues regarding proxy tables that reference RPCs." ...
>> but all of the issues I'm aware of come down to design &
>> coding 'issues':
>>
>> - login security
>> - data access/sharing
>> - complexity of RPCs, including their input parameters and
>> results set(s) - the designer/coder's knowledge of how
>> proxy tables and RPCs interact
>>
>> The document you reference (1029418) goes into some detail
>> on 'issues' (and their workarounds) that arise from using
>> different versions of ASE [you don't give specific
>> versions that you're using so I have no idea if you're
>> affected by anything in the document], plus what I'd call
>> 'design & coding' issues.
>>
>> And while it's usually not mentioned (very much), any time
>> you pass commands and data between dataservers you incur
>> additional overhead ... overhead which can degrade
>> performance. Whether or not this performance degradation
>> is 'acceptable' is up to the local user requirements.
>>
>> So ...
>>
>> - Will a newbie/novice with little understanding of
>> proxy/RPC interaction run into issues? Probably.
>>
>> - Is it possible to use ASE-15-proxy-to-ASE-12.5-RPC
>> setups? Yes.
>>
>> - Is it possible that you may run across a proxy/RPC bug
>> in ASE? Yes.
>>
>> - Is it possible to implement ASE-15-proxy-to-ASE-12.5-RPC
>> setups without problems/issues? Yes.
>>
>> - Will you run into issues with
>> ASE-15-proxy-to-ASE-12.5.RPC setups? *shrug* Does the
>> document (1029418) make sense to
>> you? What is your experience with ASE, proxy tables,
>> and RPCs? Have you tried setting up the desired proxy/RPC
>> setups that you need? Have you run into any issues and if
>> so, can you provide details?
>>
>> -----------
>>
>> So back to your original post ...
>>
>> Your questions come off as high-level, is-this-doable
>> questions.
>>
>> You didn't post any details regarding your
>> experience/knowledge with ASE, proxy tables or RPCs.
>>
>> You didn't mention if you were actually having any issues.
>>
>> Generally speaking, what you ask *is* doable.
>>
>> Will the proposed proxy/RPC interaction be 'acceptable'
>> depends on your security and performance requirements.
>>
>> Will there be any 'issues' depends your skill/knowledge
>> level.