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Ultralite to SQL Server backend

5 posts in Ultralite Last posting was on 2011-04-14 17:54:44.0Z
Shao Chan Posted on 2011-04-12 20:37:47.0Z
Reply-To: "Shao Chan" <nospam@nospam.com>
From: "Shao Chan" <nospam@nospam.com>
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Subject: Ultralite to SQL Server backend
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Article PK: 1048277

Hi there,

We traditionally in all our mobile applications always do the following:

1) Backend application database - Oracle etc.
2) Middle-tier central mobile database - SQL Anywhere
3) PDA database - Ultralite.

Layers 1-2 sync with DBMLSync or web service calls.
Layers 2-3 sync with Mobilink.

We may be considering the development of another application.

However, in this application, we may need to remove tier 2 - the middle
layer.

This would mean that the the Ultralite would synchronise directly to the
backend database which is something we've never done before.

If this backend was:
a) Oracle
b) Microsoft SQL Server
is there anything we should be aware of if we architect a new application
without the SQL Anywhere database sitting in between?

What are the common additional issues we should be aware of?

Thanks,

Shao


Jeff Albion [Sybase iAnywhere] Posted on 2011-04-13 17:40:08.0Z
From: "Jeff Albion [Sybase iAnywhere]" <firstname.lastname@sybase.com>
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Subject: Re: Ultralite to SQL Server backend
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Article PK: 1048279

Hello Shao,

On 12/04/2011 4:37 PM, Shao Chan wrote:
> This would mean that the the Ultralite would synchronise directly to the
> backend database which is something we've never done before.
>
> If this backend was:
> a) Oracle
> b) Microsoft SQL Server
> is there anything we should be aware of if we architect a new application
> without the SQL Anywhere database sitting in between?

If you currently use "SQL Anywhere-specific features" in your MobiLink
scripts, this could be problematic. If your scripts are written using
Watcom-SQL, they would have to be re-written using T-SQL/PL/SQL. Primary
key generation techniques may have to be reviewed.

You should also review the MobiLink documentation for
consolidated-database specific information:

(MSS)
http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-basics-mss-5159304.html

(ORA)
http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-basics-or-5159304.html

> What are the common additional issues we should be aware of?

- If you have been using SA 9.0.x as a middle tier previously, you
should be aware that the addition of snapshot-isolation support in the
consolidated database (For SA, MSS, and particularly in Oracle) means
slightly different logic for capturing the "relevant download data set":

http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1034585

(e.g. We now need to look at the set of open transactions on the
database, and will set the "last_download_time" to the oldest time of
the start of these transactions).

- If you use Microsoft SQL Server, you may need to utilize the "-dt"
switch to only look at transactions on the current database (instead of
all transactions open on the Microsoft SQL Server, across all
databases). See:
http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-syncserver-s-3957722.html

- In Oracle, BLOBs > 32K cannot be handled via PL/SQL/"BEGIN..END"
blocks. Straight DML operations (e.g. INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE) are fine.
(This note will be included in the next version of the Oracle
database-specific section of the docs).

- Make sure your data types on your new consolidated database still
match the remote data types correctly:
http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-datatypes.html

Cheers,

--
Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere, an SAP Company

iAnywhere Developer Community :
http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
iAnywhere Documentation : http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals
SQL Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
Report a Bug/Open a Case : http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


Shao Chan Posted on 2011-04-13 19:42:29.0Z
Reply-To: "Shao Chan" <nospam@nospam.com>
From: "Shao Chan" <nospam@nospam.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.sqlanywhere.ultralite
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Subject: Re: Ultralite to SQL Server backend
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Article PK: 1048286

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for that detailed response. Quite a few points I had not considered
much.

Oh, one more question. What is the current state of Power Designer? If the
MS SQL Server or Oracle schema is likely to match the Ultralite schema 90%+,
I'd like to reverse engineer the MS SQL Schema and create an Ultralite
schema for loading into a blank Ultralite database. I assume that this
would ensure that the types matched also.

Would we still have to go down the traditional route of converting to an SQL
Anywhere 12.0.1. database and then create a publication and then ulinit -a
followed by a schema dump? Or are there direct schema translation tools in
the latest version of Power Designer?

We have 2 main reasoning to remove the SQL Anywhere layer:

1) The problem with a middle-tier is that if we have a failover situation,
failing over 2 tiers is problematic especially if the backend tier and the
middle-tier SQL Anywhere are synchronised via DBMLsync. Getting the
Ultralites to talk to the failover SQL Anywhere tier would not have a match
in where they last synced to. However, if this was a single tier, this
would not be a problem.

2) This one isn't really removing the SQL Anywhere tier, its looking at the
possibility of using SQL Anywhere Ultralite technology to replace existing
mobile applications that have an SQL Server middle-tier with SQL Server CE
database PDA tier. The current thoughts are to use an SQLite database as
substitute. As Microsoft databases only run on Microsoft hardware and WM6.5
is in decline, the thought is to use an SQLite database instead on Android
etc. The SQL Server middle-tier has had too much investment in it to be
changed. Provided licensing does not prove cost prohibitive, I am looking
at Ultralite replacing the PDA database instead.

Either way, there appears to be more research needing to be done and quite a
bit of work.

Thanks,

Shao

"Jeff Albion [Sybase iAnywhere]" <firstname.lastname@sybase.com> wrote in
message news:4da5dff8$1@forums-1-dub...
> Hello Shao,
>
> On 12/04/2011 4:37 PM, Shao Chan wrote:
>> This would mean that the the Ultralite would synchronise directly to the
>> backend database which is something we've never done before.
>>
>> If this backend was:
>> a) Oracle
>> b) Microsoft SQL Server
>> is there anything we should be aware of if we architect a new application
>> without the SQL Anywhere database sitting in between?
>
> If you currently use "SQL Anywhere-specific features" in your MobiLink
> scripts, this could be problematic. If your scripts are written using
> Watcom-SQL, they would have to be re-written using T-SQL/PL/SQL. Primary
> key generation techniques may have to be reviewed.
>
> You should also review the MobiLink documentation for
> consolidated-database specific information:
>
> (MSS)
> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-basics-mss-5159304.html
>
> (ORA)
> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-basics-or-5159304.html
>
>> What are the common additional issues we should be aware of?
>
> - If you have been using SA 9.0.x as a middle tier previously, you should
> be aware that the addition of snapshot-isolation support in the
> consolidated database (For SA, MSS, and particularly in Oracle) means
> slightly different logic for capturing the "relevant download data set":
>
> http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1034585
>
> (e.g. We now need to look at the set of open transactions on the database,
> and will set the "last_download_time" to the oldest time of the start of
> these transactions).
>
> - If you use Microsoft SQL Server, you may need to utilize the "-dt"
> switch to only look at transactions on the current database (instead of
> all transactions open on the Microsoft SQL Server, across all databases).
> See:
> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-syncserver-s-3957722.html
>
> - In Oracle, BLOBs > 32K cannot be handled via PL/SQL/"BEGIN..END" blocks.
> Straight DML operations (e.g. INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE) are fine. (This note
> will be included in the next version of the Oracle database-specific
> section of the docs).
>
> - Make sure your data types on your new consolidated database still match
> the remote data types correctly:
> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-datatypes.html
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere, an SAP Company
>
> iAnywhere Developer Community :
> http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
> iAnywhere Documentation :
> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals
> SQL Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
> http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
> Report a Bug/Open a Case : http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/


Tim McClements [Sybase] Posted on 2011-04-14 17:13:43.0Z
From: "Tim McClements [Sybase]" <mcclemenXnospam@sybase.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.sqlanywhere.ultralite
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Article PK: 1048229

You should look at the SQL Anywhere sync-modeler tool: it can connect to
your consolidated database (whatever kind) and extract the schema, then map
and produce your remote database schema. It can produce an UltraLite
database directly. It can also generate sync scripts and deploy to the
consolidated...

- Tim

"Shao Chan" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4da5fca5@forums-1-dub...
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Thanks for that detailed response. Quite a few points I had not
> considered much.
>
> Oh, one more question. What is the current state of Power Designer? If
> the MS SQL Server or Oracle schema is likely to match the Ultralite schema
> 90%+, I'd like to reverse engineer the MS SQL Schema and create an
> Ultralite schema for loading into a blank Ultralite database. I assume
> that this would ensure that the types matched also.
>
> Would we still have to go down the traditional route of converting to an
> SQL Anywhere 12.0.1. database and then create a publication and then
> ulinit -a followed by a schema dump? Or are there direct schema
> translation tools in the latest version of Power Designer?
>
> We have 2 main reasoning to remove the SQL Anywhere layer:
>
> 1) The problem with a middle-tier is that if we have a failover situation,
> failing over 2 tiers is problematic especially if the backend tier and the
> middle-tier SQL Anywhere are synchronised via DBMLsync. Getting the
> Ultralites to talk to the failover SQL Anywhere tier would not have a
> match in where they last synced to. However, if this was a single tier,
> this would not be a problem.
>
> 2) This one isn't really removing the SQL Anywhere tier, its looking at
> the possibility of using SQL Anywhere Ultralite technology to replace
> existing mobile applications that have an SQL Server middle-tier with SQL
> Server CE database PDA tier. The current thoughts are to use an SQLite
> database as substitute. As Microsoft databases only run on Microsoft
> hardware and WM6.5 is in decline, the thought is to use an SQLite database
> instead on Android etc. The SQL Server middle-tier has had too much
> investment in it to be changed. Provided licensing does not prove cost
> prohibitive, I am looking at Ultralite replacing the PDA database instead.
>
> Either way, there appears to be more research needing to be done and quite
> a bit of work.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shao
>
>
>
> "Jeff Albion [Sybase iAnywhere]" <firstname.lastname@sybase.com> wrote in
> message news:4da5dff8$1@forums-1-dub...
>> Hello Shao,
>>
>> On 12/04/2011 4:37 PM, Shao Chan wrote:
>>> This would mean that the the Ultralite would synchronise directly to the
>>> backend database which is something we've never done before.
>>>
>>> If this backend was:
>>> a) Oracle
>>> b) Microsoft SQL Server
>>> is there anything we should be aware of if we architect a new
>>> application
>>> without the SQL Anywhere database sitting in between?
>>
>> If you currently use "SQL Anywhere-specific features" in your MobiLink
>> scripts, this could be problematic. If your scripts are written using
>> Watcom-SQL, they would have to be re-written using T-SQL/PL/SQL. Primary
>> key generation techniques may have to be reviewed.
>>
>> You should also review the MobiLink documentation for
>> consolidated-database specific information:
>>
>> (MSS)
>> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-basics-mss-5159304.html
>>
>> (ORA)
>> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-basics-or-5159304.html
>>
>>> What are the common additional issues we should be aware of?
>>
>> - If you have been using SA 9.0.x as a middle tier previously, you should
>> be aware that the addition of snapshot-isolation support in the
>> consolidated database (For SA, MSS, and particularly in Oracle) means
>> slightly different logic for capturing the "relevant download data set":
>>
>> http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1034585
>>
>> (e.g. We now need to look at the set of open transactions on the
>> database, and will set the "last_download_time" to the oldest time of the
>> start of these transactions).
>>
>> - If you use Microsoft SQL Server, you may need to utilize the "-dt"
>> switch to only look at transactions on the current database (instead of
>> all transactions open on the Microsoft SQL Server, across all databases).
>> See:
>> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-syncserver-s-3957722.html
>>
>> - In Oracle, BLOBs > 32K cannot be handled via PL/SQL/"BEGIN..END"
>> blocks. Straight DML operations (e.g. INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE) are fine.
>> (This note will be included in the next version of the Oracle
>> database-specific section of the docs).
>>
>> - Make sure your data types on your new consolidated database still match
>> the remote data types correctly:
>> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-datatypes.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere, an SAP Company
>>
>> iAnywhere Developer Community :
>> http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
>> iAnywhere Documentation :
>> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals
>> SQL Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
>> http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
>> Report a Bug/Open a Case : http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/
>
>


Shao Chan Posted on 2011-04-14 17:54:44.0Z
Reply-To: "Shao Chan" <nospam@nospam.com>
From: "Shao Chan" <nospam@nospam.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.sqlanywhere.ultralite
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Article PK: 1048228

Thanks Tim. I'll look into the sync-modeller - I am not familiar with it.

Cheers,

Shao

"Tim McClements [Sybase]" <mcclemenXnospam@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:4da72b47$1@forums-1-dub...
> You should look at the SQL Anywhere sync-modeler tool: it can connect to
> your consolidated database (whatever kind) and extract the schema, then
> map and produce your remote database schema. It can produce an UltraLite
> database directly. It can also generate sync scripts and deploy to the
> consolidated...
>
> - Tim
>
>
> "Shao Chan" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:4da5fca5@forums-1-dub...
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> Thanks for that detailed response. Quite a few points I had not
>> considered much.
>>
>> Oh, one more question. What is the current state of Power Designer? If
>> the MS SQL Server or Oracle schema is likely to match the Ultralite
>> schema 90%+, I'd like to reverse engineer the MS SQL Schema and create an
>> Ultralite schema for loading into a blank Ultralite database. I assume
>> that this would ensure that the types matched also.
>>
>> Would we still have to go down the traditional route of converting to an
>> SQL Anywhere 12.0.1. database and then create a publication and then
>> ulinit -a followed by a schema dump? Or are there direct schema
>> translation tools in the latest version of Power Designer?
>>
>> We have 2 main reasoning to remove the SQL Anywhere layer:
>>
>> 1) The problem with a middle-tier is that if we have a failover
>> situation, failing over 2 tiers is problematic especially if the backend
>> tier and the middle-tier SQL Anywhere are synchronised via DBMLsync.
>> Getting the Ultralites to talk to the failover SQL Anywhere tier would
>> not have a match in where they last synced to. However, if this was a
>> single tier, this would not be a problem.
>>
>> 2) This one isn't really removing the SQL Anywhere tier, its looking at
>> the possibility of using SQL Anywhere Ultralite technology to replace
>> existing mobile applications that have an SQL Server middle-tier with SQL
>> Server CE database PDA tier. The current thoughts are to use an SQLite
>> database as substitute. As Microsoft databases only run on Microsoft
>> hardware and WM6.5 is in decline, the thought is to use an SQLite
>> database instead on Android etc. The SQL Server middle-tier has had too
>> much investment in it to be changed. Provided licensing does not prove
>> cost prohibitive, I am looking at Ultralite replacing the PDA database
>> instead.
>>
>> Either way, there appears to be more research needing to be done and
>> quite a bit of work.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Shao
>>
>>
>>
>> "Jeff Albion [Sybase iAnywhere]" <firstname.lastname@sybase.com> wrote in
>> message news:4da5dff8$1@forums-1-dub...
>>> Hello Shao,
>>>
>>> On 12/04/2011 4:37 PM, Shao Chan wrote:
>>>> This would mean that the the Ultralite would synchronise directly to
>>>> the
>>>> backend database which is something we've never done before.
>>>>
>>>> If this backend was:
>>>> a) Oracle
>>>> b) Microsoft SQL Server
>>>> is there anything we should be aware of if we architect a new
>>>> application
>>>> without the SQL Anywhere database sitting in between?
>>>
>>> If you currently use "SQL Anywhere-specific features" in your MobiLink
>>> scripts, this could be problematic. If your scripts are written using
>>> Watcom-SQL, they would have to be re-written using T-SQL/PL/SQL. Primary
>>> key generation techniques may have to be reviewed.
>>>
>>> You should also review the MobiLink documentation for
>>> consolidated-database specific information:
>>>
>>> (MSS)
>>> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-basics-mss-5159304.html
>>>
>>> (ORA)
>>> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-basics-or-5159304.html
>>>
>>>> What are the common additional issues we should be aware of?
>>>
>>> - If you have been using SA 9.0.x as a middle tier previously, you
>>> should be aware that the addition of snapshot-isolation support in the
>>> consolidated database (For SA, MSS, and particularly in Oracle) means
>>> slightly different logic for capturing the "relevant download data set":
>>>
>>> http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1034585
>>>
>>> (e.g. We now need to look at the set of open transactions on the
>>> database, and will set the "last_download_time" to the oldest time of
>>> the start of these transactions).
>>>
>>> - If you use Microsoft SQL Server, you may need to utilize the "-dt"
>>> switch to only look at transactions on the current database (instead of
>>> all transactions open on the Microsoft SQL Server, across all
>>> databases). See:
>>> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-syncserver-s-3957722.html
>>>
>>> - In Oracle, BLOBs > 32K cannot be handled via PL/SQL/"BEGIN..END"
>>> blocks. Straight DML operations (e.g. INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE) are fine.
>>> (This note will be included in the next version of the Oracle
>>> database-specific section of the docs).
>>>
>>> - Make sure your data types on your new consolidated database still
>>> match the remote data types correctly:
>>> http://dcx.sybase.com/index.html#1201/en/mlserver/ml-datatypes.html
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeff Albion, Sybase iAnywhere, an SAP Company
>>>
>>> iAnywhere Developer Community :
>>> http://www.sybase.com/developer/library/sql-anywhere-techcorner
>>> iAnywhere Documentation :
>>> http://www.ianywhere.com/developer/product_manuals
>>> SQL Anywhere Patches and EBFs :
>>> http://downloads.sybase.com/swd/summary.do?baseprod=144&client=ianywhere&timeframe=0
>>> Report a Bug/Open a Case : http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/
>>
>>
>
>