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ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance

39 posts in PB Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2012-02-06 19:56:29.0Z
Van Posted on 2012-01-27 16:17:26.0Z
Reply-To: "Van" <Van@hotmail.com>
From: "Van" <Van@hotmail.com>
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Subject: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Just to share , please read this ..

http://www.prweb.com/releases/ZSL-Joins-Microsoft/Platform-Alliance/prweb9094786.htm

Regards , Van


Van Posted on 2012-01-27 16:18:56.0Z
Reply-To: "Van" <Van@hotmail.com>
From: "Van" <Van@hotmail.com>
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They are the worst idiots , still taking about PowerBuilder as a legacy tool
..

How come not .NET is a legacy tool as well . :)

Regards , Van

"Van" <Van@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4f22ce16@forums-1-dub...
>
> Just to share , please read this ..
>
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/ZSL-Joins-Microsoft/Platform-Alliance/prweb9094786.htm
>
> Regards , Van
>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-01-27 16:31:51.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
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Hi Van;

No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning addressing
MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro, & I
would add Access in there too!

However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as its
Saas, SOA, Web & Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))

FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html

BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is not
legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net (etc)
client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.

--
Regards ... Chris
President: STD Inc./ OSUG
VP ISUG - Membership
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass

"Van" <Van@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4f22ce70@forums-1-dub...
> They are the worst idiots , still taking about PowerBuilder as a legacy
> tool ..
>
> How come not .NET is a legacy tool as well . :)
>
> Regards , Van
>
> "Van" <Van@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4f22ce16@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> Just to share , please read this ..
>>
>> http://www.prweb.com/releases/ZSL-Joins-Microsoft/Platform-Alliance/prweb9094786.htm
>>
>> Regards , Van
>>
>
>


Brett Weaver Posted on 2012-01-28 07:00:13.0Z
From: Brett Weaver <bretnsp@weaversoft.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
Message-ID: <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com>
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I have to say something first about on the the statements:
" to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
environment"
If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
Don't even get me started on speed... :-)


Chris,
I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
after technology as fast as it should have.
We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
I know Appeon is moving towards.
I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
product mix?



On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"

<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:

>
>Hi Van;
>
> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning addressing
>MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro, & I
>would add Access in there too!
>
>However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as its
>Saas, SOA, Web & Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>
>FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>
>BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is not
>legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net (etc)
>client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.


Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-01-28 07:40:26.0Z
From: "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
had that beautiful dream.

Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do

Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
> environment"
> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>
>
> Chris,
> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
> after technology as fast as it should have.
> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
> I know Appeon is moving towards.
> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
> product mix?
>
>
>
> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Van;
>>
>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning addressing
>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro,& I
>> would add Access in there too!
>>
>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as its
>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>
>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>
>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is not
>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net (etc)
>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.


Brett Weaver Posted on 2012-01-28 11:26:00.0Z
From: Brett Weaver <bretnsp@weaversoft.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
Message-ID: <c1m7i717chbke927phqjetkleeg92rjv45@4ax.com>
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub>
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Well, I don't know. I just see need for business data display and data
capture combined with good local database connectivity. If I cannot do
it with PB then I will do it with other tools of course.
I just would LIKE to do it in PKB/PB.

PocketBuilder was brilliant - Just limited by the technology choice
(CE) .. and the fact that it was years too early.

On 27 Jan 2012 23:40:26 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"

<jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
>an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>had that beautiful dream.
>
>Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
>Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
>On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>> environment"
>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>> product mix?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Van;
>>>
>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning addressing
>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro,& I
>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>
>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as its
>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>
>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>
>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is not
>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net (etc)
>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.


Brett Weaver Posted on 2012-01-28 11:32:39.0Z
From: Brett Weaver <bretnsp@weaversoft.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <c1m7i717chbke927phqjetkleeg92rjv45@4ax.com>
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I mean years too early in Australiasia.. We have only now got
reasonable connections possible on mobile devices at a reasonable
speed. Even then we don't get much outside of town.

It may not have been too early elsewhere...




On 28 Jan 2012 03:26:00 -0800, Brett Weaver <bretnsp@weaversoft.com>

wrote:

>
>Well, I don't know. I just see need for business data display and data
>capture combined with good local database connectivity. If I cannot do
>it with PB then I will do it with other tools of course.
>I just would LIKE to do it in PKB/PB.
>
>PocketBuilder was brilliant - Just limited by the technology choice
>(CE) .. and the fact that it was years too early.
>
>On 27 Jan 2012 23:40:26 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
><jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>>Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>>Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
>>an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>>had that beautiful dream.
>>
>>Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>
>>Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>>On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>> environment"
>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>> product mix?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>
>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning addressing
>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro,& I
>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>
>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as its
>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>
>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>
>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is not
>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net (etc)
>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-01-30 03:49:21.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452553

Hi Jerry;

I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so easy
to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm that to
me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to make this happen
as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path. Add to that the
other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool option and you get
a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(

Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or more
similar products compete internally and built by different divisions. This
lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar products to
co-exist as one might address the small to medium range business clients and
the other the large scale ones.

Regards ... Chris


"Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...

Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
had that beautiful dream.

Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do

Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
> environment"
> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>
>
> Chris,
> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
> after technology as fast as it should have.
> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
> I know Appeon is moving towards.
> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
> product mix?
>
>
>
> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Van;
>>
>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>> addressing
>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro,&
>> I
>> would add Access in there too!
>>
>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as
>> its
>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>
>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>
>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is
>> not
>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net
>> (etc)
>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.


Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-01-30 04:13:18.0Z
From: "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com>
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Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got caught
by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do, as
well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I don't
see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
legacy.

IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012 will
be back at the Venetian October 15-17.

Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do

Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
> Hi Jerry;
>
> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm
> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to make
> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path. Add
> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>
> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or more
> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>
> Regards ... Chris
>
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>
> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
> had that beautiful dream.
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>> environment"
>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>> product mix?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Van;
>>>
>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>> addressing
>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>> FoxPro,& I
>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>
>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>> as its
>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>
>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>
>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it
>>> is not
>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>> VB.net (etc)
>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-01-30 04:32:58.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f261341$1@forums-1-dub> <4f2618de@forums-1-dub>
In-Reply-To: <4f2618de@forums-1-dub>
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Hi Jerry;

MS's problem is Ballmer who had a great working tablet in his hands by
former xBox designer Otto Berks. Instead of embracing what could have been
the real iPad killer Ballmer killed the project. Unfortunately, after waking
up to the fact he had the working golden egg in his hands 2 years earlier -
it was too late. This guy is another example of what a non-visionary can do
to a great company. Like the co-CEOs of RIM - its time Ballmer stepped down.

Regards ... Chris
President: OSUG / STD Inc.
VP Membership: ISUG
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass



"Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f2618de@forums-1-dub...

Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got caught
by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do, as
well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I don't
see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
legacy.

IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012 will
be back at the Venetian October 15-17.

Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do

Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
> Hi Jerry;
>
> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm
> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to make
> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path. Add
> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>
> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or more
> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>
> Regards ... Chris
>
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>
> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
> had that beautiful dream.
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>> environment"
>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>> product mix?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Van;
>>>
>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>> addressing
>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>> FoxPro,& I
>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>
>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>> as its
>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>
>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>
>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it
>>> is not
>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>> VB.net (etc)
>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>


Bruce Armstrong Posted on 2012-01-30 18:01:59.0Z
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Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
References: <4f2618de@forums-1-dub> <4f261d7a@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452561

The Courier? Not sure it would have been a killer, given that it
apparently didnt read email. And at least accoriding to CNET, it was that
flaw that apparently lead Gates to tell Ballmer to cancel it.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20128013-75/the-inside-story-of-how-microsoft-killed-its-courier-tablet/

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
> Hi Jerry;
>
> MS's problem is Ballmer who had a great working tablet in his hands by
> former xBox designer Otto Berks. Instead of embracing what could have
> been the real iPad killer Ballmer killed the project. Unfortunately,
> after waking up to the fact he had the working golden egg in his hands 2
> years earlier - it was too late. This guy is another example of what a
> non-visionary can do to a great company. Like the co-CEOs of RIM - its
> time Ballmer stepped down.
>
> Regards ... Chris
> President: OSUG / STD Inc.
> VP Membership: ISUG
> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>
>
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f2618de@forums-1-dub...
>
> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got caught
> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do, as
> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I don't
> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
> legacy.
>
> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012 will
> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>> Hi Jerry;
>>
>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm
>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to make
>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path. Add
>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>>
>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or more
>> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>
>> Regards ... Chris
>>
>>
>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>> had that beautiful dream.
>>
>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>
>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>> environment"
>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>> product mix?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>
>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>> addressing
>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>
>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>>> as its
>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>
>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>
>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it
>>>> is not
>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>


Andreas Mykonios Posted on 2012-02-01 12:37:44.0Z
From: Andreas Mykonios <Andreas Mykonios>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f261341$1@forums-1-dub> <4f2618de@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452577

Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make us
think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...

Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am expecting
to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.

Andreas Mykonios.

On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"

<jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got caught
>by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do, as
>well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I don't
>see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
>legacy.
>
>IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012 will
>be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>
>Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
>Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
>On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>> Hi Jerry;
>>
>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm
>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to make
>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path. Add
>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>>
>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or more
>> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>
>> Regards ... Chris
>>
>>
>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>> had that beautiful dream.
>>
>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>
>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>> environment"
>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>> product mix?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>
>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>> addressing
>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>
>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>>> as its
>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>
>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>
>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it
>>>> is not
>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-01 13:05:06.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f261341$1@forums-1-dub> <4f2618de@forums-1-dub> <6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Article PK: 452576

Hi Andreas;

On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a mention
that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is certainly
nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB customer base out
there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better with things
like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more beneficial to the
majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.

I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed" road
map is presented.

--
Regards ... Chris
President: STD Inc./ OSUG
VP ISUG - Membership
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass

<Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make us
> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>
> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am expecting
> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>
> Andreas Mykonios.
>
> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got caught
>>by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do, as
>>well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I don't
>>see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
>>legacy.
>>
>>IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012 will
>>be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>
>>Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>
>>Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>>On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>
>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm
>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to make
>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path. Add
>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>>>
>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or more
>>> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>
>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>
>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>
>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>
>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>
>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>> environment"
>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>> product mix?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>
>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>> addressing
>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>
>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>>>> as its
>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>
>>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it
>>>>> is not
>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>


Jason 'Bug' Fenter [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-02-01 16:13:35.0Z
From: "Jason 'Bug' Fenter [TeamSybase]" <jason.fenter@teamsybase.com>
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Too many times, I've heard people complain that there's too few PB jobs
and too few PB developers and too small a PB market share. I think it's
a very good thing to see PB addressing a new crowd, and what better
place to start than your own backyard? And yes, SharePoint and SaaS and
all that stuff would be good, too. It just looks like they chose to play
a little closer to the cuff.

On 02/01/2012 7:05 AM, Chris Pollach wrote:
> Hi Andreas;
>
> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog& tweets yesterday there was a mention
> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is certainly
> nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB customer base out
> there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better with things
> like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more beneficial to the
> majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>
> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed" road
> map is presented.
>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-01 16:35:33.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f261341$1@forums-1-dub> <4f2618de@forums-1-dub> <6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com> <4f293882@forums-1-dub> <4f2964af$1@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452583

Hi Jason;

I disagree ... to me that just signals that PB is no longer a great
*general* development tool - just another SAP extension. Internally, this
might fly better with SAP for funding (I can see that) but I highly doubt it
will excite the average PB developer out there (unless their organization is
already running SAP). :-(


--
Regards ... Chris
President: STD Inc./ OSUG
VP ISUG - Membership
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass

"Jason 'Bug' Fenter [TeamSybase]" <jason.fenter@teamsybase.com> wrote in
message news:4f2964af$1@forums-1-dub...
> Too many times, I've heard people complain that there's too few PB jobs
> and too few PB developers and too small a PB market share. I think it's a
> very good thing to see PB addressing a new crowd, and what better place to
> start than your own backyard? And yes, SharePoint and SaaS and all that
> stuff would be good, too. It just looks like they chose to play a little
> closer to the cuff.
>
>
>
> On 02/01/2012 7:05 AM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>> Hi Andreas;
>>
>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog& tweets yesterday there was a
>> mention
>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>> certainly
>> nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB customer base out
>> there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better with things
>> like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more beneficial to the
>> majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>
>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>> road
>> map is presented.
>>


Paul Horan[Sybase] Posted on 2012-02-01 17:13:27.0Z
From: "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f261341$1@forums-1-dub> <4f2618de@forums-1-dub> <6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com> <4f293882@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452586

That's incredibly short-sighted...
How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate at
least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
world...

If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a lot of
people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...

Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
SAP

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
> Hi Andreas;
>
> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a mention
> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is certainly
> nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB customer base out
> there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better with things
> like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more beneficial to the
> majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>
> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed" road
> map is presented.
>
> --
> Regards ... Chris
> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
> VP ISUG - Membership
> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>
>
> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make us
>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>
>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am expecting
>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>
>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>
>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got caught
>>>by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do, as
>>>well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I don't
>>>see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
>>>legacy.
>>>
>>>IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012 will
>>>be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>
>>>Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>
>>>Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>
>>>On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>
>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>> confirm
>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to
>>>> make
>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path.
>>>> Add
>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>>>>
>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or
>>>> more
>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>
>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>
>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was
>>>> once
>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>
>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>
>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>> environment"
>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris,
>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>>>>> as its
>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it
>>>>>> is not
>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>
>
>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-01 17:45:26.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f261341$1@forums-1-dub> <4f2618de@forums-1-dub> <6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com> <4f293882@forums-1-dub> <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452585

In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
enabled IT shops.

The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed SAP.
However, its through another system written in Java. :-(

"Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
> That's incredibly short-sighted...
> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate at
> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
> world...
>
> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a lot
> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>
> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
> SAP
>
>
> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>> Hi Andreas;
>>
>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a mention
>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB customer
>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better
>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>
>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>> road map is presented.
>>
>> --
>> Regards ... Chris
>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>> VP ISUG - Membership
>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>
>>
>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make us
>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>
>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am expecting
>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>
>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>
>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got caught
>>>>by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do, as
>>>>well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I don't
>>>>see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
>>>>legacy.
>>>>
>>>>IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012 will
>>>>be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>
>>>>Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>
>>>>Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>
>>>>On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>
>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>> platforms
>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>> confirm
>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to
>>>>> make
>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path.
>>>>> Add
>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or
>>>>> more
>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>
>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was
>>>>> once
>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>
>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>
>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it
>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>
>>
>>


Bruce Armstrong Posted on 2012-02-01 23:29:53.0Z
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Article PK: 452589

That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something, in
increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)

1. existing product to existing customers
2. existing product to new customers
3. new product to existing customers
4. new product to new customers

You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put on
too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
> enabled IT shops.
>
> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed SAP.
> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>
>
>
> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate at
>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
>> world...
>>
>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a lot
>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>>
>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>> SAP
>>
>>
>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>
>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a mention
>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB customer
>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better
>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>
>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>>> road map is presented.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards ... Chris
>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>
>>>
>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make us
>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>
>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am expecting
>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>
>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>
>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got caught
>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do, as
>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I don't
>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>
>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012 will
>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>
>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>
>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path.
>>>>>> Add
>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was
>>>>>> once
>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it
>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-02 02:48:50.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub> <4f297a36@forums-1-dub> <2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com>
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Article PK: 452588

I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include the
BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)

Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.




"Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...

That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something, in
increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)

1. existing product to existing customers
2. existing product to new customers
3. new product to existing customers
4. new product to new customers

You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put on
too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
> enabled IT shops.
>
> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed SAP.
> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>
>
>
> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate at
>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
>> world...
>>
>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a lot
>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>>
>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>> SAP
>>
>>
>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>
>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a
>>> mention
>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>> customer
>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better
>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>
>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>>> road map is presented.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards ... Chris
>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>
>>>
>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make us
>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>
>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am expecting
>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>
>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>
>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got caught
>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do,
>>>>> as
>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I don't
>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>
>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012
>>>>> will
>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>
>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>
>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path.
>>>>>> Add
>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally.
>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was
>>>>>> once
>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>


Paul Horan[Sybase] Posted on 2012-02-02 15:03:03.0Z
From: "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub> <4f297a36@forums-1-dub> <2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f29f992@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452593

Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't already PB
customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over
again and expecting different results..."

Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the SAP
user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW developers
(with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same things you're
asking for. The PB community is both vocal and passionate about the tool,
but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that would present
themselves if we're able to add their collective voice to ours...

Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
SAP

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>
> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include the
> BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>
> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>
>
>
>
> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>
> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something, in
> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>
> 1. existing product to existing customers
> 2. existing product to new customers
> 3. new product to existing customers
> 4. new product to new customers
>
> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put on
> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>
> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
>> enabled IT shops.
>>
>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed SAP.
>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>
>>
>>
>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate
>>> at
>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
>>> world...
>>>
>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a lot
>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>>>
>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>> SAP
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>
>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a
>>>> mention
>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>> customer
>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better
>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>>
>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make us
>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>
>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am expecting
>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>> caught
>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do,
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is now
>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase products.
>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path.
>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally.
>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was
>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-02 16:26:46.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub> <4f297a36@forums-1-dub> <2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f29f992@forums-1-dub> <4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Xref: forums-1-dub sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion:28270
Article PK: 452597

=> Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again
and expecting different results..."

Sounds like Sybase marketing ... LOL <my bad>

"Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub...
> Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't already PB
> customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and
> over again and expecting different results..."
>
> Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the SAP
> user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW developers
> (with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same things you're
> asking for. The PB community is both vocal and passionate about the tool,
> but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that would present
> themselves if we're able to add their collective voice to ours...
>
> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
> SAP
>
>
>
> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
> news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include the
>> BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>>
>> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
>> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>>
>> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something, in
>> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>>
>> 1. existing product to existing customers
>> 2. existing product to new customers
>> 3. new product to existing customers
>> 4. new product to new customers
>>
>> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put on
>> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>>
>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
>>> enabled IT shops.
>>>
>>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed
>>> SAP.
>>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate
>>>> at
>>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
>>>> world...
>>>>
>>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a
>>>> lot
>>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>>>>
>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>> SAP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>>
>>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a
>>>>> mention
>>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>>> customer
>>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better
>>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am
>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do,
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is
>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase
>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the
>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end
>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile
>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally.
>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss
>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was
>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have
>>>>>>>>>> Tablet
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>


Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-02-02 17:18:34.0Z
Reply-To: "Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]" <dontreply_tddykstra@lonepineresources.com.x>
From: "Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]" <tddykstra@lonepineresources.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub> <4f297a36@forums-1-dub> <2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f29f992@forums-1-dub> <4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub> <4f2ab946@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452594

Why don't you apply for the Director of Marketing position at Sybase? I'm
sure you would have the ship turned around within days.......

-- -- Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]
http://powerbuilder.codeXchange.sybase.com/
http://casexpress.sybase.com
http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

"Chris Pollach" wrote in message news:4f2ab946@forums-1-dub...

=> Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again
and expecting different results..."

Sounds like Sybase marketing ... LOL <my bad>

"Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub...
> Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't already PB
> customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and
> over again and expecting different results..."
>
> Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the SAP
> user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW developers
> (with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same things you're
> asking for. The PB community is both vocal and passionate about the tool,
> but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that would present
> themselves if we're able to add their collective voice to ours...
>
> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
> SAP
>
>
>
> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
> news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include the
>> BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>>
>> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
>> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>>
>> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something, in
>> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>>
>> 1. existing product to existing customers
>> 2. existing product to new customers
>> 3. new product to existing customers
>> 4. new product to new customers
>>
>> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put on
>> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>>
>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
>>> enabled IT shops.
>>>
>>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed
>>> SAP.
>>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate
>>>> at
>>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
>>>> world...
>>>>
>>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a
>>>> lot
>>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>>>>
>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>> SAP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>>
>>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a
>>>>> mention
>>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>>> customer
>>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better
>>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am
>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to do,
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is
>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase
>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the
>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end
>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile
>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally.
>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
>>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
>>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss
>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was
>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have
>>>>>>>>>> Tablet
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-02 18:53:04.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub> <4f297a36@forums-1-dub> <2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f29f992@forums-1-dub> <4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub> <4f2ab946@forums-1-dub> <4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Article PK: 452596

They would never hire me as I would ask for "carte blanche" and revamp the
entire thing. :-)

FWIW: Sounds like Sales is merging with SAP - so maybe Marketing will be
next.

"Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]" <tddykstra@lonepineresources.com> wrote in
message news:4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub...
> Why don't you apply for the Director of Marketing position at Sybase? I'm
> sure you would have the ship turned around within days.......
>
> -- -- Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]
> http://powerbuilder.codeXchange.sybase.com/
> http://casexpress.sybase.com
> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> "Chris Pollach" wrote in message news:4f2ab946@forums-1-dub...
>
> => Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again
> and expecting different results..."
>
> Sounds like Sybase marketing ... LOL <my bad>
>
>
> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
> news:4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub...
>> Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't already
>> PB customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over
>> and over again and expecting different results..."
>>
>> Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the SAP
>> user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW
>> developers (with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same
>> things you're asking for. The PB community is both vocal and passionate
>> about the tool, but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that
>> would present themselves if we're able to add their collective voice to
>> ours...
>>
>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>> SAP
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>>>
>>> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include
>>> the BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>>>
>>> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
>>> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>>>
>>> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something, in
>>> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>>>
>>> 1. existing product to existing customers
>>> 2. existing product to new customers
>>> 3. new product to existing customers
>>> 4. new product to new customers
>>>
>>> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put
>>> on
>>> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>>>
>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
>>>> enabled IT shops.
>>>>
>>>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed
>>>> SAP.
>>>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate
>>>>> at
>>>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
>>>>> world...
>>>>>
>>>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a
>>>>> lot
>>>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>>> SAP
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a
>>>>>> mention
>>>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>>>> customer
>>>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better
>>>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>>>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>>>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am
>>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to
>>>>>>>> do, as
>>>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is
>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase
>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the
>>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have
>>>>>>>>> been so
>>>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision"
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end
>>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile
>>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally.
>>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other
>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium
>>>>>>>>> range
>>>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss
>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the
>>>>>>>>>> moment
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based
>>>>>>>>>> apps
>>>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their
>>>>>>>>>> SUP
>>>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have
>>>>>>>>>>> Tablet
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is
>>>>>>>>>>> why it
>>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>


Dave Fish [Sybase] Posted on 2012-02-03 22:51:14.0Z
From: "Dave Fish [Sybase]" <n0Spam__dfish@sybase.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Article PK: 452599

Good luck getting carte blanche anywhere but in government.

On 2 Feb 2012 10:53:04 -0800, "Chris Pollach"

<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:

>
>They would never hire me as I would ask for "carte blanche" and revamp the
>entire thing. :-)
>
>FWIW: Sounds like Sales is merging with SAP - so maybe Marketing will be
>next.
>
>
>
>"Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]" <tddykstra@lonepineresources.com> wrote in
>message news:4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub...
>> Why don't you apply for the Director of Marketing position at Sybase? I'm
>> sure you would have the ship turned around within days.......
>>
>> -- -- Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]
>> http://powerbuilder.codeXchange.sybase.com/
>> http://casexpress.sybase.com
>> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>> "Chris Pollach" wrote in message news:4f2ab946@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> => Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again
>> and expecting different results..."
>>
>> Sounds like Sybase marketing ... LOL <my bad>
>>
>>
>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub...
>>> Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't already
>>> PB customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over
>>> and over again and expecting different results..."
>>>
>>> Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the SAP
>>> user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW
>>> developers (with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same
>>> things you're asking for. The PB community is both vocal and passionate
>>> about the tool, but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that
>>> would present themselves if we're able to add their collective voice to
>>> ours...
>>>
>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>> SAP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>>>>
>>>> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include
>>>> the BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
>>>> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>>>>
>>>> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something, in
>>>> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>>>>
>>>> 1. existing product to existing customers
>>>> 2. existing product to new customers
>>>> 3. new product to existing customers
>>>> 4. new product to new customers
>>>>
>>>> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put
>>>> on
>>>> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
>>>>> enabled IT shops.
>>>>>
>>>>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed
>>>>> SAP.
>>>>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>>>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
>>>>>> world...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a
>>>>>> lot
>>>>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>>>> SAP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a
>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>>>>> customer
>>>>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better
>>>>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>>>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>>>>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>>>>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am
>>>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to
>>>>>>>>> do, as
>>>>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is
>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase
>>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the
>>>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have
>>>>>>>>>> been so
>>>>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision"
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end
>>>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile
>>>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally.
>>>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other
>>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium
>>>>>>>>>> range
>>>>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss
>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the
>>>>>>>>>>> moment
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based
>>>>>>>>>>> apps
>>>>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their
>>>>>>>>>>> SUP
>>>>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tablet
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is
>>>>>>>>>>>> why it
>>>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-05 01:57:44.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub> <4f297a36@forums-1-dub> <2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f29f992@forums-1-dub> <4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub> <4f2ab946@forums-1-dub> <4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub> <4f2adb90$1@forums-1-dub> <c6poi75oj9k61bp2fsndkukm9i42onnio3@4ax.com>
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LOL ... no hope there either unless its a "dictatorship"!




"Dave Fish [Sybase]" wrote in message
news:c6poi75oj9k61bp2fsndkukm9i42onnio3@4ax.com...

Good luck getting carte blanche anywhere but in government.

On 2 Feb 2012 10:53:04 -0800, "Chris Pollach"

<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:

>
>They would never hire me as I would ask for "carte blanche" and revamp the
>entire thing. :-)
>
>FWIW: Sounds like Sales is merging with SAP - so maybe Marketing will be
>next.
>
>
>
>"Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]" <tddykstra@lonepineresources.com> wrote in
>message news:4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub...
>> Why don't you apply for the Director of Marketing position at Sybase?
>> I'm
>> sure you would have the ship turned around within days.......
>>
>> -- -- Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]
>> http://powerbuilder.codeXchange.sybase.com/
>> http://casexpress.sybase.com
>> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>> "Chris Pollach" wrote in message news:4f2ab946@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> => Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over
>> again
>> and expecting different results..."
>>
>> Sounds like Sybase marketing ... LOL <my bad>
>>
>>
>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub...
>>> Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't already
>>> PB customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over
>>> and over again and expecting different results..."
>>>
>>> Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the
>>> SAP
>>> user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW
>>> developers (with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same
>>> things you're asking for. The PB community is both vocal and passionate
>>> about the tool, but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that
>>> would present themselves if we're able to add their collective voice to
>>> ours...
>>>
>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>> SAP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>>>>
>>>> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include
>>>> the BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
>>>> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>>>>
>>>> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something, in
>>>> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>>>>
>>>> 1. existing product to existing customers
>>>> 2. existing product to new customers
>>>> 3. new product to existing customers
>>>> 4. new product to new customers
>>>>
>>>> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put
>>>> on
>>>> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
>>>>> enabled IT shops.
>>>>>
>>>>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed
>>>>> SAP.
>>>>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]" <paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>>>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would
>>>>>> estimate
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> world...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a
>>>>>> lot
>>>>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>>>> SAP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog & tweets yesterday there was a
>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>>>>> customer
>>>>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>>>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15
>>>>>>> "detailed"
>>>>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am
>>>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to
>>>>>>>>> do, as
>>>>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is
>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase
>>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the
>>>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have
>>>>>>>>>> been so
>>>>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision"
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end
>>>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile
>>>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB
>>>>>>>>>> internally.
>>>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other
>>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium
>>>>>>>>>> range
>>>>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss
>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the
>>>>>>>>>>> moment
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data
>>>>>>>>>>> storage
>>>>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based
>>>>>>>>>>> apps
>>>>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes
>>>>>>>>>>> south.
>>>>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their
>>>>>>>>>>> SUP
>>>>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even
>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioning
>>>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tablet
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is
>>>>>>>>>>>> why it
>>>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>


Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-02-05 02:18:12.0Z
From: "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com>
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Last time I did any gubbermint work, specs were written by clueless PHBs
and put out for bids. When you got the stuff two years later, it was
already obsolete and did not match any other platform in the agency. I'd
suggest asking Paul, but I expect he'd rather forget ;-)

Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do

Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

On 2/3/2012 5:51 PM, Dave Fish [Sybase] wrote:
> Good luck getting carte blanche anywhere but in government.
>
> On 2 Feb 2012 10:53:04 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> They would never hire me as I would ask for "carte blanche" and revamp the
>> entire thing. :-)
>>
>> FWIW: Sounds like Sales is merging with SAP - so maybe Marketing will be
>> next.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]"<tddykstra@lonepineresources.com> wrote in
>> message news:4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub...
>>> Why don't you apply for the Director of Marketing position at Sybase? I'm
>>> sure you would have the ship turned around within days.......
>>>
>>> -- -- Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]
>>> http://powerbuilder.codeXchange.sybase.com/
>>> http://casexpress.sybase.com
>>> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>
>>> "Chris Pollach" wrote in message news:4f2ab946@forums-1-dub...
>>>
>>> => Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again
>>> and expecting different results..."
>>>
>>> Sounds like Sybase marketing ... LOL<my bad>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]"<paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub...
>>>> Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't already
>>>> PB customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over
>>>> and over again and expecting different results..."
>>>>
>>>> Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the SAP
>>>> user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW
>>>> developers (with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same
>>>> things you're asking for. The PB community is both vocal and passionate
>>>> about the tool, but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that
>>>> would present themselves if we're able to add their collective voice to
>>>> ours...
>>>>
>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>> SAP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>
>>>>> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include
>>>>> the BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
>>>>> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something, in
>>>>> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. existing product to existing customers
>>>>> 2. existing product to new customers
>>>>> 3. new product to existing customers
>>>>> 4. new product to new customers
>>>>>
>>>>> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put
>>>>> on
>>>>> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
>>>>>> enabled IT shops.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed
>>>>>> SAP.
>>>>>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]"<paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>>>>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would estimate
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all the
>>>>>>> world...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a
>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take notice...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>>>>> SAP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog& tweets yesterday there was a
>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>>>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>>>>>> customer
>>>>>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating better
>>>>>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>>>>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15 "detailed"
>>>>>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>>>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>>>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase, make
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>>>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way, and
>>>>>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am
>>>>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to
>>>>>>>>>> do, as
>>>>>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I
>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is
>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase
>>>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy. What
>>>>>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW 2012
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the
>>>>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have
>>>>>>>>>>> been so
>>>>>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision"
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end
>>>>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile
>>>>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally.
>>>>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other
>>>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium
>>>>>>>>>>> range
>>>>>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss
>>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> moment
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based
>>>>>>>>>>>> apps
>>>>>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their
>>>>>>>>>>>> SUP
>>>>>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tablet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> why it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-06 02:50:11.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub> <4f297a36@forums-1-dub> <2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f29f992@forums-1-dub> <4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub> <4f2ab946@forums-1-dub> <4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub> <4f2adb90$1@forums-1-dub> <c6poi75oj9k61bp2fsndkukm9i42onnio3@4ax.com> <4f2de6e4@forums-1-dub>
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Hi Jerry;

Sounds like you were on a good project! :-)

The other big problem (at least in Canada) is that everything is done by
consensus. So you need to get some many approvals before, during and after
an SDLC begins on a given project. This alone pretty much guarantees that it
will take 4 - 10x as long as it should! LOL


Regards ... Chris
President: OSUG / STD Inc.
VP Membership: ISUG
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass



"Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f2de6e4@forums-1-dub...

Last time I did any gubbermint work, specs were written by clueless PHBs
and put out for bids. When you got the stuff two years later, it was
already obsolete and did not match any other platform in the agency. I'd
suggest asking Paul, but I expect he'd rather forget ;-)

Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do

Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

On 2/3/2012 5:51 PM, Dave Fish [Sybase] wrote:
> Good luck getting carte blanche anywhere but in government.
>
> On 2 Feb 2012 10:53:04 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> They would never hire me as I would ask for "carte blanche" and revamp
>> the
>> entire thing. :-)
>>
>> FWIW: Sounds like Sales is merging with SAP - so maybe Marketing will be
>> next.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]"<tddykstra@lonepineresources.com> wrote in
>> message news:4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub...
>>> Why don't you apply for the Director of Marketing position at Sybase?
>>> I'm
>>> sure you would have the ship turned around within days.......
>>>
>>> -- -- Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]
>>> http://powerbuilder.codeXchange.sybase.com/
>>> http://casexpress.sybase.com
>>> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>
>>> "Chris Pollach" wrote in message news:4f2ab946@forums-1-dub...
>>>
>>> => Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over
>>> again
>>> and expecting different results..."
>>>
>>> Sounds like Sybase marketing ... LOL<my bad>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]"<paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub...
>>>> Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't already
>>>> PB customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over
>>>> and over again and expecting different results..."
>>>>
>>>> Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the
>>>> SAP
>>>> user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW
>>>> developers (with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same
>>>> things you're asking for. The PB community is both vocal and
>>>> passionate
>>>> about the tool, but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that
>>>> would present themselves if we're able to add their collective voice to
>>>> ours...
>>>>
>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>> SAP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>
>>>>> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include
>>>>> the BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
>>>>> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something,
>>>>> in
>>>>> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. existing product to existing customers
>>>>> 2. existing product to new customers
>>>>> 3. new product to existing customers
>>>>> 4. new product to new customers
>>>>>
>>>>> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been put
>>>>> on
>>>>> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
>>>>>> enabled IT shops.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed
>>>>>> SAP.
>>>>>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]"<paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>>>>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would
>>>>>>> estimate
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> world...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community, a
>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take
>>>>>>> notice...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>>>>> SAP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog& tweets yesterday there was a
>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>>>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>>>>>> customer
>>>>>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x more
>>>>>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP API's.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15
>>>>>>>> "detailed"
>>>>>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>>>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>>>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase,
>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>>>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am
>>>>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to
>>>>>>>>>> do, as
>>>>>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I
>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash is
>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase
>>>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy.
>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW
>>>>>>>>>> 2012
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the
>>>>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have
>>>>>>>>>>> been so
>>>>>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer
>>>>>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision"
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end
>>>>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile
>>>>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB
>>>>>>>>>>> internally.
>>>>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other
>>>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium
>>>>>>>>>>> range
>>>>>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>>>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts.
>>>>>>>>>>> IOS
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss
>>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server
>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current
>>>>>>>>>>>> technology!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> moment
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data
>>>>>>>>>>>> storage
>>>>>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based
>>>>>>>>>>>> apps
>>>>>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes
>>>>>>>>>>>> south.
>>>>>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their
>>>>>>>>>>>> SUP
>>>>>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never
>>>>>>>>>>>>> properly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> VB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tablet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> why it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>


<jeff> Posted on 2012-02-06 14:38:26.0Z
Reply-To: <jeff>
From: <jeff>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub> <4f297a36@forums-1-dub> <2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f29f992@forums-1-dub> <4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub> <4f2ab946@forums-1-dub> <4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub> <4f2adb90$1@forums-1-dub> <c6poi75oj9k61bp2fsndkukm9i42onnio3@4ax.com> <4f2de6e4@forums-1-dub> <4f2f3fe3$1@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Article PK: 452601

... and when the business unit does not understand their job, they do not
know what to ask for
... and the project manager is a complete waste of time
... and the business unit 'changes' the scope 3 or 4 times during the
project
... and the project manager is a complete waste of time
... and the business unit 'changes' the scope 2 more times after the
'final - 5 fifth change request document is complete' ...
... and the software developer team is blamed for a project going down hill
... and the IT manager saying we should have used the CLOUD to solve this
problem
... and an external consultants telling the IT manager / Business Sponser,
'we could have done this in half the time and cost'
... and they wonder why the project is 100x over budget!

... BUT ... the IT manager still has a job and an increased budget to put
things in the CLOUDs and use the overpaid external consultants next time,
the Project Manager still has a job and likely promoted, the business unit
has their job and the SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT TEAM is downsized and training
budgets slashed.

Sounds like a Government of Canada IT project to me!

Jeff.

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:4f2f3fe3$1@forums-1-dub...
> Hi Jerry;
>
> Sounds like you were on a good project! :-)
>
> The other big problem (at least in Canada) is that everything is done by
> consensus. So you need to get some many approvals before, during and after
> an SDLC begins on a given project. This alone pretty much guarantees that
> it will take 4 - 10x as long as it should! LOL
>
>
> Regards ... Chris
> President: OSUG / STD Inc.
> VP Membership: ISUG
> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>
>
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
> news:4f2de6e4@forums-1-dub...
>
> Last time I did any gubbermint work, specs were written by clueless PHBs
> and put out for bids. When you got the stuff two years later, it was
> already obsolete and did not match any other platform in the agency. I'd
> suggest asking Paul, but I expect he'd rather forget ;-)
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 2/3/2012 5:51 PM, Dave Fish [Sybase] wrote:
>> Good luck getting carte blanche anywhere but in government.
>>
>> On 2 Feb 2012 10:53:04 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> They would never hire me as I would ask for "carte blanche" and revamp
>>> the
>>> entire thing. :-)
>>>
>>> FWIW: Sounds like Sales is merging with SAP - so maybe Marketing will be
>>> next.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]"<tddykstra@lonepineresources.com> wrote in
>>> message news:4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub...
>>>> Why don't you apply for the Director of Marketing position at Sybase?
>>>> I'm
>>>> sure you would have the ship turned around within days.......
>>>>
>>>> -- -- Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]
>>>> http://powerbuilder.codeXchange.sybase.com/
>>>> http://casexpress.sybase.com
>>>> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Pollach" wrote in message news:4f2ab946@forums-1-dub...
>>>>
>>>> => Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over
>>>> again
>>>> and expecting different results..."
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like Sybase marketing ... LOL<my bad>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]"<paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub...
>>>>> Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't
>>>>> already
>>>>> PB customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over
>>>>> and over again and expecting different results..."
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the
>>>>> SAP
>>>>> user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW
>>>>> developers (with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same
>>>>> things you're asking for. The PB community is both vocal and
>>>>> passionate
>>>>> about the tool, but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that
>>>>> would present themselves if we're able to add their collective voice
>>>>> to
>>>>> ours...
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>>> SAP
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would include
>>>>>> the BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something,
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. existing product to existing customers
>>>>>> 2. existing product to new customers
>>>>>> 3. new product to existing customers
>>>>>> 4. new product to new customers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been
>>>>>> put
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the PB
>>>>>>> enabled IT shops.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does feed
>>>>>>> SAP.
>>>>>>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]"<paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>>>>>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would
>>>>>>>> estimate
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> world...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community,
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take
>>>>>>>> notice...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>>>>>> SAP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog& tweets yesterday there was a
>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>>>>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>>>>>>> customer
>>>>>>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating
>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP
>>>>>>>>> API's.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15
>>>>>>>>> "detailed"
>>>>>>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>>>>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>>>>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase,
>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>>>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an opinion,
>>>>>>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am
>>>>>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>>>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up to
>>>>>>>>>>> do, as
>>>>>>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase
>>>>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy.
>>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW
>>>>>>>>>>> 2012
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have
>>>>>>>>>>>> been so
>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former
>>>>>>>>>>>> engineer
>>>>>>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no
>>>>>>>>>>>> "vision"
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end
>>>>>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB
>>>>>>>>>>>> internally.
>>>>>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have
>>>>>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other
>>>>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium
>>>>>>>>>>>> range
>>>>>>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts.
>>>>>>>>>>>> IOS
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss
>>>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>> an acorn
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server
>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current
>>>>>>>>>>>>> technology!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data
>>>>>>>>>>>>> storage
>>>>>>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apps
>>>>>>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> south.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> SUP
>>>>>>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> properly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tablet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
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>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
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Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-06 19:56:29.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub> <4f297a36@forums-1-dub> <2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f29f992@forums-1-dub> <4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub> <4f2ab946@forums-1-dub> <4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub> <4f2adb90$1@forums-1-dub> <c6poi75oj9k61bp2fsndkukm9i42onnio3@4ax.com> <4f2de6e4@forums-1-dub> <4f2f3fe3$1@forums-1-dub> <4f2fe5e2@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Article PK: 452604

How true ... scary isn't it!

<jeff> wrote in message news:4f2fe5e2@forums-1-dub...
>
> ... and when the business unit does not understand their job, they do not
> know what to ask for
> ... and the project manager is a complete waste of time
> ... and the business unit 'changes' the scope 3 or 4 times during the
> project
> ... and the project manager is a complete waste of time
> ... and the business unit 'changes' the scope 2 more times after the
> 'final - 5 fifth change request document is complete' ...
> ... and the software developer team is blamed for a project going down
> hill
> ... and the IT manager saying we should have used the CLOUD to solve this
> problem
> ... and an external consultants telling the IT manager / Business Sponser,
> 'we could have done this in half the time and cost'
> ... and they wonder why the project is 100x over budget!
>
> ... BUT ... the IT manager still has a job and an increased budget to put
> things in the CLOUDs and use the overpaid external consultants next time,
> the Project Manager still has a job and likely promoted, the business unit
> has their job and the SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT TEAM is downsized and training
> budgets slashed.
>
> Sounds like a Government of Canada IT project to me!
>
> Jeff.
>
>
> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
> news:4f2f3fe3$1@forums-1-dub...
>> Hi Jerry;
>>
>> Sounds like you were on a good project! :-)
>>
>> The other big problem (at least in Canada) is that everything is done by
>> consensus. So you need to get some many approvals before, during and
>> after an SDLC begins on a given project. This alone pretty much
>> guarantees that it will take 4 - 10x as long as it should! LOL
>>
>>
>> Regards ... Chris
>> President: OSUG / STD Inc.
>> VP Membership: ISUG
>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>
>>
>>
>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>> news:4f2de6e4@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> Last time I did any gubbermint work, specs were written by clueless PHBs
>> and put out for bids. When you got the stuff two years later, it was
>> already obsolete and did not match any other platform in the agency. I'd
>> suggest asking Paul, but I expect he'd rather forget ;-)
>>
>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>
>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>> On 2/3/2012 5:51 PM, Dave Fish [Sybase] wrote:
>>> Good luck getting carte blanche anywhere but in government.
>>>
>>> On 2 Feb 2012 10:53:04 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> They would never hire me as I would ask for "carte blanche" and revamp
>>>> the
>>>> entire thing. :-)
>>>>
>>>> FWIW: Sounds like Sales is merging with SAP - so maybe Marketing will
>>>> be
>>>> next.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]"<tddykstra@lonepineresources.com> wrote in
>>>> message news:4f2ac56a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>> Why don't you apply for the Director of Marketing position at Sybase?
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> sure you would have the ship turned around within days.......
>>>>>
>>>>> -- -- Terry Dykstra [TeamSybase]
>>>>> http://powerbuilder.codeXchange.sybase.com/
>>>>> http://casexpress.sybase.com
>>>>> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris Pollach" wrote in message news:4f2ab946@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>
>>>>> => Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over
>>>>> again
>>>>> and expecting different results..."
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like Sybase marketing ... LOL<my bad>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]"<paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4f2aa5a7@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>> Marketing PB to net-new customers at large IT shops that aren't
>>>>>> already
>>>>>> PB customers? Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing
>>>>>> over
>>>>>> and over again and expecting different results..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, if PB became the defacto UI development tool for customizing the
>>>>>> SAP
>>>>>> user interface, then we have literally tens of thousands of NEW
>>>>>> developers (with SAP product management's ear) clamoring for the same
>>>>>> things you're asking for. The PB community is both vocal and
>>>>>> passionate
>>>>>> about the tool, but just for a second, imagine the possibilities that
>>>>>> would present themselves if we're able to add their collective voice
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> ours...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>>>> SAP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4f29f992@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know ... I am talking about #2 - except new customers would
>>>>>>> include
>>>>>>> the BIG NON-SAP IT shops. :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh well, 2 years to full Canada pension.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:2130452672349827899.947410NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's actually Paul's point. There are four ways to sell something,
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> increasing order of difficulty (ansoff matrix)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. existing product to existing customers
>>>>>>> 2. existing product to new customers
>>>>>>> 3. new product to existing customers
>>>>>>> 4. new product to new customers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're talking about 1, which is where most of the effort has been
>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> too long. What Paul is taking out is either 2 or 3,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In all my Cdn Gov. PB client sites - SAP is a very small % of the
>>>>>>>> PB
>>>>>>>> enabled IT shops.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The system I am working on right now is an exception as it does
>>>>>>>> feed
>>>>>>>> SAP.
>>>>>>>> However, its through another system written in Java. :-(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Paul Horan[Sybase]"<paulDOThoran@sybase.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4f2972b7$1@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>> That's incredibly short-sighted...
>>>>>>>>> How many SAP installations and developers are there? I would
>>>>>>>>> estimate
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> least two orders of magnitude greater than all the PB shops in all
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> world...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If PB becomes more attractive and valuable to that user community,
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>> of people with deep pockets at the parent company will take
>>>>>>>>> notice...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>>>>>>>> SAP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:4f293882@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Andreas;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On the FaceBook / LinkedIn blog& tweets yesterday there was
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>>> that PB was headed towards better SAP integration. While that is
>>>>>>>>>> certainly nice - it represents a very small percentage of the PB
>>>>>>>>>> customer
>>>>>>>>>> base out there that also use SAP. I would say that integrating
>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>> with things like SMTP, SharePoint, SS, W8, etc would be 1,000x
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> beneficial to the majority of developers than supporting SAP
>>>>>>>>>> API's.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I hope we see a lot more positive things when the PB 15
>>>>>>>>>> "detailed"
>>>>>>>>>> road map is presented.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>>> President: STD Inc./ OSUG
>>>>>>>>>> VP ISUG - Membership
>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>>>>>>>>>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <Andreas Mykonios> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:6taii7p5iso2mh4hqpbtme2qdbrmrr7f2n@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> Your second opinion about sap and their reasons to buy sybase,
>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> think, if we (porwerbuilder developers) want to stick with
>>>>>>>>>>> incertainity... So I think, then even if this is only an
>>>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>>>> there is a big number of pb developers who are filling this way,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> are wondering if we should be looking for another tool...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sap owns sybase for more than an year... As a developer I am
>>>>>>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>>>>>>> to hear more about what they think concerning a great IDE.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Andreas Mykonios.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2012 20:13:18 -0800, "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"
>>>>>>>>>>> <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Their crystal ball must have been as murky as mine. Even MS got
>>>>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>>>>> by the smartphone/tablet trend, and Win8 has some catching up
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> do, as
>>>>>>>>>>>> well as Win Phone. HTML5 is indeed the flavor of the month but
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> see Bill Gates coming back to give MS fresh vision. Even Flash
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>> legacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> IMHO SAP is still getting their heads around all the Sybase
>>>>>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>>>>>> From my viewpoint, ASE, IQ, and SUP were the reasons to buy.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>>>> happens to the rest? We'll see where the new action goes - TW
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012
>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>> be back at the Venetian October 15-17.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jerry;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>>>>>>> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>>> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> been so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former
>>>>>>>>>>>>> engineer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> confirm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "vision"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end
>>>>>>>>>>>>> path.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>>>>>>> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB
>>>>>>>>>>>>> internally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar products compete internally and built by different
>>>>>>>>>>>>> divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>>>>>> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium
>>>>>>>>>>>>> range
>>>>>>>>>>>>> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IOS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an acorn
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> had that beautiful dream.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Product Enhancement Requests:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technology!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> storage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> south.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SUP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> properly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FoxPro,& I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Appeon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tablet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VB.net (etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>> signature database 6861 (20120206) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature database 6862 (20120206) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>


Bruce Armstrong Posted on 2012-01-30 18:01:59.0Z
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Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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The Mac version apparently used MetroWerks CodeWarrior. That got picked up
by Motorola in 1995, and by 2005 they had also discontinued support for the
Mac platform.

Interesting that Sybase's announcement to discontinue support for the Mac
was so they could put those resources into developing thin client web
capability.

http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=47786

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
> Hi Jerry;
>
> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm
> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to make
> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path. Add
> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>
> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or
> more similar products compete internally and built by different
> divisions. This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other
> similar products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium
> range business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>
> Regards ... Chris
>
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>
> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
> had that beautiful dream.
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>> environment"
>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>> product mix?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Van;
>>>
>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning >> addressing
>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro,& >> I
>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>
>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as >> its
>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>
>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>
>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is >> not
>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net >> (etc)
>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-01-31 03:39:32.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f261341$1@forums-1-dub> <1265631394349638349.841501NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com>
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Wow ... they sure missed the resource re-deployment on that one! LOL



"Bruce Armstrong" wrote in message
news:1265631394349638349.841501NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com...

The Mac version apparently used MetroWerks CodeWarrior. That got picked up
by Motorola in 1995, and by 2005 they had also discontinued support for the
Mac platform.

Interesting that Sybase's announcement to discontinue support for the Mac
was so they could put those resources into developing thin client web
capability.

http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=47786

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
> Hi Jerry;
>
> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm
> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to make
> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path. Add
> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>
> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or
> more similar products compete internally and built by different
> divisions. This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other
> similar products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium
> range business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>
> Regards ... Chris
>
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>
> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
> had that beautiful dream.
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>> environment"
>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>> product mix?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Van;
>>>
>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning >>
>>> addressing
>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro,&
>>> >> I
>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>
>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as
>>> >> its
>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>
>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>
>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is
>>> >> not
>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net
>>> >> (etc)
>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.


Chris Keating (Sybase, an SAP Company) Posted on 2012-01-30 15:26:35.0Z
From: "Chris Keating (Sybase, an SAP Company)" <last_name@sybase.com>
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> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms current popularity.

But it would have been 10 years for a platform that was not showing ROI.

> The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm that to me).

That might be true provided there was no dependency on any shared
objects (assuming the term is correct for the iOS platform). If there is
a runtime requirement like that for PowerBuilder on Windows, it becomes
more difficult as a result of the developer licensing terms for that
platform.

> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or more similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.

IBM has different scale than Sybase -- i.e., over 400K employees, a much
larger revenue and net income level. But in the end, IBM, like any
business, must see ROI or these multiple products would not exist.

On 29/01/2012 10:49 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
> Hi Jerry;
>
> I bet Sybase now wishes that they would have persevered with the Mac
> version and "morphed" it into an iOS version considering that platforms
> current popularity. The same for PocketBuilder - it would have been so
> easy to just have it emit Object-C (I even had a former engineer confirm
> that to me). The problem I see now is that they have no "vision" to make
> this happen as they are wandering down the (IMHO) WPF dead-end path. Add
> to that the other side of Sybase pushing SUP as the only mobile tool
> option and you get a negative energy vortex against PB internally. :-(
>
> Sybase should take a good lesson from IBM. They often have three or more
> similar products compete internally and built by different divisions.
> This lets the "cream" rise to the top and also allows other similar
> products to co-exist as one might address the small to medium range
> business clients and the other the large scale ones.
>
> Regards ... Chris
>
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>
> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
> Solaris. They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or
> Android: Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
> had that beautiful dream.
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>> environment"
>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>> product mix?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Van;
>>>
>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>> addressing
>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>> FoxPro,& I
>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>
>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>> as its
>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>
>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>
>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it
>>> is not
>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>> VB.net (etc)
>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>


Van Posted on 2012-01-30 09:23:08.0Z
Reply-To: "Van" <Van@hotmail.com>
From: "Van" <Van@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
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Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Article PK: 452558

Once upon a time, I guess Sybase was very much ahead of the world in those
early days... but now the time is back when Sybase has already left that
world.

Go back and look at the source code repository and RE-WRITE/ migrate them to
C#.
Regards , Van

"Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and Solaris.
> They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or Android:
> Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that had
> that beautiful dream.
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>> environment"
>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>> product mix?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Van;
>>>
>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>> addressing
>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro,&
>>> I
>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>
>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as
>>> its
>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>
>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>
>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is
>>> not
>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net
>>> (etc)
>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.


Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-01-30 11:13:55.0Z
From: "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com>
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Article PK: 452560

Actually that was PowerSoft, before the Sybase acquisition. They were
moving along with the world at that time, before it became clear that
the desktop for line of business applications had been won by Windows,
and there just wasn't any market for the other platforms.
Re-write is the word, as the target devices, operating systems, and
instruction sets did not exist. There's a whole new set of touch screen,
accelerometer, and communication events to deal with! It all comes down
to the cost of building and maintaining the tool, and whether there is a
good enough chance of marketing enough licenses to come out ahead on the
deal in a world where Visual Studio and Eclipse already have mind share.
If I were product manager, I'd be more concerned with PB15 being great,
on time, and ready to play nicely with Windows 8.

Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do

Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

On 1/30/2012 4:23 AM, Van wrote:
> Once upon a time, I guess Sybase was very much ahead of the world in those
> early days... but now the time is back when Sybase has already left that
> world.
>
> Go back and look at the source code repository and RE-WRITE/ migrate them to
> C#.
> Regards , Van
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"<jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and Solaris.
>> They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or Android:
>> Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that had
>> that beautiful dream.
>>
>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>
>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>> environment"
>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>> product mix?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>
>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>> addressing
>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro,&
>>>> I
>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>
>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as
>>>> its
>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>
>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>
>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is
>>>> not
>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net
>>>> (etc)
>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>
>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-01-30 13:34:45.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f26617c@forums-1-dub> <4f267b73$1@forums-1-dub>
In-Reply-To: <4f267b73$1@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Article PK: 452559

Hi Jerry;

W8 is passé already - the real prize (IMHO) is full HTML5 compliance
for PB 15 applications. Then we can not only be Metro ready, we could fully
leverage the current web, mobility and cloud directions we see active today.


Regards ... Chris
President: OSUG / STD Inc.
VP Membership: ISUG
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass



"Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
news:4f267b73$1@forums-1-dub...

Actually that was PowerSoft, before the Sybase acquisition. They were
moving along with the world at that time, before it became clear that
the desktop for line of business applications had been won by Windows,
and there just wasn't any market for the other platforms.
Re-write is the word, as the target devices, operating systems, and
instruction sets did not exist. There's a whole new set of touch screen,
accelerometer, and communication events to deal with! It all comes down
to the cost of building and maintaining the tool, and whether there is a
good enough chance of marketing enough licenses to come out ahead on the
deal in a world where Visual Studio and Eclipse already have mind share.
If I were product manager, I'd be more concerned with PB15 being great,
on time, and ready to play nicely with Windows 8.

Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do

Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

On 1/30/2012 4:23 AM, Van wrote:
> Once upon a time, I guess Sybase was very much ahead of the world in those
> early days... but now the time is back when Sybase has already left that
> world.
>
> Go back and look at the source code repository and RE-WRITE/ migrate them
> to
> C#.
> Regards , Van
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"<jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and Solaris.
>> They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or Android:
>> Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that had
>> that beautiful dream.
>>
>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>
>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>> environment"
>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>> product mix?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>
>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>> addressing
>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>> FoxPro,&
>>>> I
>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>
>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as
>>>> its
>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet
>>>> and
>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>
>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>
>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is
>>>> not
>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net
>>>> (etc)
>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>
>


Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-01-30 18:14:58.0Z
From: "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1
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Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f26617c@forums-1-dub> <4f267b73$1@forums-1-dub> <4f269c75@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452564

"Full" might be a little tough with HTML5 still in the oven.

Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do

Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187

On 1/30/2012 8:34 AM, Chris Pollach wrote:
> Hi Jerry;
>
> W8 is passé already - the real prize (IMHO) is full HTML5 compliance for
> PB 15 applications. Then we can not only be Metro ready, we could fully
> leverage the current web, mobility and cloud directions we see active
> today.
>
>
> Regards ... Chris
> President: OSUG / STD Inc.
> VP Membership: ISUG
> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>
>
>
> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
> news:4f267b73$1@forums-1-dub...
>
> Actually that was PowerSoft, before the Sybase acquisition. They were
> moving along with the world at that time, before it became clear that
> the desktop for line of business applications had been won by Windows,
> and there just wasn't any market for the other platforms.
> Re-write is the word, as the target devices, operating systems, and
> instruction sets did not exist. There's a whole new set of touch screen,
> accelerometer, and communication events to deal with! It all comes down
> to the cost of building and maintaining the tool, and whether there is a
> good enough chance of marketing enough licenses to come out ahead on the
> deal in a world where Visual Studio and Eclipse already have mind share.
> If I were product manager, I'd be more concerned with PB15 being great,
> on time, and ready to play nicely with Windows 8.
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 1/30/2012 4:23 AM, Van wrote:
>> Once upon a time, I guess Sybase was very much ahead of the world in
>> those
>> early days... but now the time is back when Sybase has already left that
>> world.
>>
>> Go back and look at the source code repository and RE-WRITE/ migrate
>> them to
>> C#.
>> Regards , Van
>>
>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"<jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>> Solaris.
>>> They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or Android:
>>> Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was once
>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>>> had
>>> that beautiful dream.
>>>
>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>
>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>
>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>> environment"
>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>> product mix?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>
>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>> addressing
>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>> FoxPro,&
>>>>> I
>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>
>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as
>>>>> its
>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>
>>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why
>>>>> it is
>>>>> not
>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net
>>>>> (etc)
>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>
>>
>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-01-30 20:00:52.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f22ce16@forums-1-dub> <4f22ce70@forums-1-dub> <4f22d177@forums-1-dub> <pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com> <4f23a66a@forums-1-dub> <4f26617c@forums-1-dub> <4f267b73$1@forums-1-dub> <4f269c75@forums-1-dub> <4f26de22@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Article PK: 452565

Yes, a bit optimistic I must admit ... I guess I should say "in the *near*
future". :-)

"Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" <jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4f26de22@forums-1-dub...
> "Full" might be a little tough with HTML5 still in the oven.
>
> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>
> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>
> On 1/30/2012 8:34 AM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>> Hi Jerry;
>>
>> W8 is passé already - the real prize (IMHO) is full HTML5 compliance for
>> PB 15 applications. Then we can not only be Metro ready, we could fully
>> leverage the current web, mobility and cloud directions we see active
>> today.
>>
>>
>> Regards ... Chris
>> President: OSUG / STD Inc.
>> VP Membership: ISUG
>> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
>> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
>> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>>
>>
>>
>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]" wrote in message
>> news:4f267b73$1@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> Actually that was PowerSoft, before the Sybase acquisition. They were
>> moving along with the world at that time, before it became clear that
>> the desktop for line of business applications had been won by Windows,
>> and there just wasn't any market for the other platforms.
>> Re-write is the word, as the target devices, operating systems, and
>> instruction sets did not exist. There's a whole new set of touch screen,
>> accelerometer, and communication events to deal with! It all comes down
>> to the cost of building and maintaining the tool, and whether there is a
>> good enough chance of marketing enough licenses to come out ahead on the
>> deal in a world where Visual Studio and Eclipse already have mind share.
>> If I were product manager, I'd be more concerned with PB15 being great,
>> on time, and ready to play nicely with Windows 8.
>>
>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>
>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>
>> On 1/30/2012 4:23 AM, Van wrote:
>>> Once upon a time, I guess Sybase was very much ahead of the world in
>>> those
>>> early days... but now the time is back when Sybase has already left that
>>> world.
>>>
>>> Go back and look at the source code repository and RE-WRITE/ migrate
>>> them to
>>> C#.
>>> Regards , Van
>>>
>>> "Jerry Siegel [TeamSybase]"<jNOsSPAMsiegel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4f23a66a@forums-1-dub...
>>>> Once upon a time PB had versions (IDE as well as VM) for Mac and
>>>> Solaris.
>>>> They wound up in the Edsel Museum of Great Concepts. IOS or Android:
>>>> Doable? Sure. Salable? Hmmm.
>>>> PB/PKB/SUP coalescing to a code once, run on any platform Swiss Army
>>>> Knife? Would it be a Clydesdale or a unicorn? Seems to me there was
>>>> once
>>>> an acorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_(programming_language) that
>>>> had
>>>> that beautiful dream.
>>>>
>>>> Report Bugs to Sybase: http://case-express.sybase.com/cx/welcome.do
>>>>
>>>> Product Enhancement Requests: http://my.isug.com/p/cm/ld?fid=187
>>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2012 2:00 AM, Brett Weaver wrote:
>>>>> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
>>>>> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
>>>>> environment"
>>>>> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
>>>>> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
>>>>> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris,
>>>>> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
>>>>> after technology as fast as it should have.
>>>>> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
>>>>> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
>>>>> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
>>>>> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
>>>>> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
>>>>> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
>>>>> I know Appeon is moving towards.
>>>>> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
>>>>> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
>>>>> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
>>>>> product mix?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
>>>>> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Van;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>>>>> addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>> MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB,
>>>>>> FoxPro,&
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> would add Access in there too!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> its
>>>>>> Saas, SOA, Web& Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why
>>>>>> it is
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of
>>>>>> VB.net
>>>>>> (etc)
>>>>>> client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>>>
>>>
>>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-01-30 04:21:31.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
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Hi Brett;

Good points that need to be addressed by PB 15!

Regards ... Chris
President: OSUG / STD Inc.
VP Membership: ISUG
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass



"Brett Weaver" wrote in message
news:pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com...

I have to say something first about on the the statements:
" to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
environment"
If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
Don't even get me started on speed... :-)


Chris,
I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
after technology as fast as it should have.
We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
I know Appeon is moving towards.
I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
product mix?



On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"

<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:

>
>Hi Van;
>
> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning addressing
>MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro, & I
>would add Access in there too!
>
>However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as its
>Saas, SOA, Web & Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>
>FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>
>BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is not
>legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net
>(etc)
>client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.


Van Posted on 2012-01-31 09:40:13.0Z
Reply-To: "Van" <Van@hotmail.com>
From: "Van" <Van@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: ZSL Joins the Microsoft's Platform Modernization Alliance
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Article PK: 452571

Finger- Crossed : )

Thanks to all for putting up your thoughts.

Regards , Van

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:4f261acb@forums-1-dub...
> Hi Brett;
>
> Good points that need to be addressed by PB 15!
>
> Regards ... Chris
> President: OSUG / STD Inc.
> VP Membership: ISUG
> Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
> PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
> SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
>
>
>
> "Brett Weaver" wrote in message
> news:pf67i7dqd943ltrq2l79d276424jr9eb7o@4ax.com...
>
> I have to say something first about on the the statements:
> " to a reliable and scalable Microsoft .Net and SQL Server based
> environment"
> If they have managed to make Microsoft .Net as reliable as PB running
> on Win32 they have achieved a huge leap over current technology!
> Don't even get me started on speed... :-)
>
>
> Chris,
> I am starting to think that PB may have dodged a bullet by not chasing
> after technology as fast as it should have.
> We know that Silverlight and Flash are on the outer for the moment and
> that HTML5 seems to be (excuse me) rendering them obsolete.
> I need an application to have local intelligence and data storage
> capability when deploying to mobile and tablet. Browser based apps
> served to the mobile don't cut it when the connection goes south.
> A PBVM on IOS or Android should be doable and its effect is something
> I know Appeon is moving towards.
> I believe we need to "explain" to Sybase that we would like
> PocketBuilder/PowerBuilder back for occasionally connected
> applications. Why can't they make it an integral part of their SUP
> product mix?
>
>
>
> On 27 Jan 2012 08:31:51 -0800, "Chris Pollach"
> <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Van;
>>
>> No, they are correct - PB is "legacy" because it never properly
>>addressed SOA, SaaS, Web and now the Cloud. They even mentioning
>>addressing
>>MS's own legacy development systems (and correctly so) like VB, FoxPro, &
>>I
>>would add Access in there too!
>>
>>However .... If I were a PB shop - I would seriously look at Appeon as its
>>Saas, SOA, Web & Azure Cloud certified - plus, you will have Tablet and
>>Smart Device deployment later this year!!!!!!! :-))))
>>
>>FYI: http://www.appeon.com/about/EventsDetail-c5f0e81e65645105.html
>>
>>BTW: Because .NET extends to ASP.Net and soon Metro - that is why it is
>>not
>>legacy. However, I would consider WPF, Winform, and any form of VB.net
>>(etc)
>>client / server applications "legacy" as well these days.
>