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Building my own Datawindow engine? Ist there a license/patent pitfall?

12 posts in PB Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2012-03-13 23:29:06.0Z
Benjamin Kemner Posted on 2012-02-09 09:38:08.0Z
From: Benjamin Kemner <no@spam.de>
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Hi,

if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon
do stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for PowerScript.

regards


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-09 13:15:26.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
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Hi Ben;

Wow ... sounds like an interesting "academic" exercise! :-)

Appeon converts the PB components to: HTML, jScript and XML. Once this
is done, there is no dependence on the run time and there licensing issue.
There are other companies that to the same - for example:
http://www.ewaksoft.com/html/overview.html. I would imagine that the
licensing aspect would *only* come into play where you were dependant on the
PBVM for execution.


--
Regards ... Chris
President: STD Inc./ OSUG
VP ISUG - Membership
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass

"Benjamin Kemner" <no@spam.de> wrote in message
news:4f339400$1@forums-1-dub...
> Hi,
>
> if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
> original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon do
> stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
> Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for PowerScript.
>
> regards


Benjamin Kemner Posted on 2012-02-12 09:40:56.0Z
From: Benjamin Kemner <no@spam.de>
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Yes, it's highly academic. I asked myself if it is possible to create a
dw engine and a pbvm i.g. under open source license. Like it's done with
Mono and .NET.

best regards

Am 09.02.2012 14:15, schrieb Chris Pollach:

> Hi Ben;
>
> Wow ... sounds like an interesting "academic" exercise! :-)
>
> Appeon converts the PB components to: HTML, jScript and XML. Once this
> is done, there is no dependence on the run time and there licensing issue.
> There are other companies that to the same - for example:
> http://www.ewaksoft.com/html/overview.html. I would imagine that the
> licensing aspect would *only* come into play where you were dependant on the
> PBVM for execution.
>
>


"Reed Shilts [Sybase]" Posted on 2012-02-09 19:22:36.0Z
From: "Reed Shilts [Sybase]" <reed dot shilts at sybase dot com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
Subject: Re: Building my own Datawindow engine? Ist there a license/patent pitfall?
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There are numerous patents covering DataWindow technology.
For anything further you would have to contact a lawyer - which nobody
in the NG is qualified to answer.

HTH,
Reed Shilts
<Standard-Disclaimers-Apply/>

On 9 Feb 2012 01:38:08 -0800, Benjamin Kemner <no@spam.de> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
>original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon
>do stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
>Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for PowerScript.
>
>regards


Brad Wery [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-02-09 19:34:14.0Z
From: "Brad Wery [TeamSybase]" <bradwery@gmail.com>
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There was once talks about making the DW painter a control that could be
added to your PB application. Has this idea been abandoned?

Brad Wery

http://www.powertothebuilder.com
http://www.facebook.com/powertothebuilder
http://www.twitter.com/PowerbuilderGUI

On 2/9/2012 1:22 PM, Reed Shilts [Sybase] wrote:
> There are numerous patents covering DataWindow technology.
> For anything further you would have to contact a lawyer - which nobody
> in the NG is qualified to answer.
>
> HTH,
> Reed Shilts
> <Standard-Disclaimers-Apply/>
>
> On 9 Feb 2012 01:38:08 -0800, Benjamin Kemner<no@spam.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
>> original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon
>> do stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
>> Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for PowerScript.
>>
>> regards
>


Roland Smith [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-02-10 17:16:44.0Z
From: "Roland Smith [TeamSybase]" <rsmith@trusthss.com>
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I asked about that once several years ago. I was told that there was the
capability to embed the DW Painter into your app but you had to contact Sue
directly to ask about the license terms and the technical info on how it is
done. I didn't follow up so I don't know more than that.

"Brad Wery [TeamSybase]" <bradwery@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f341fb6$1@forums-1-dub...
> There was once talks about making the DW painter a control that could be
> added to your PB application. Has this idea been abandoned?
>
> Brad Wery
>
> http://www.powertothebuilder.com
> http://www.facebook.com/powertothebuilder
> http://www.twitter.com/PowerbuilderGUI
>
> On 2/9/2012 1:22 PM, Reed Shilts [Sybase] wrote:
>> There are numerous patents covering DataWindow technology.
>> For anything further you would have to contact a lawyer - which nobody
>> in the NG is qualified to answer.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Reed Shilts
>> <Standard-Disclaimers-Apply/>
>>
>> On 9 Feb 2012 01:38:08 -0800, Benjamin Kemner<no@spam.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
>>> original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon
>>> do stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
>>> Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for
>>> PowerScript.
>>>
>>> regards
>>


Mike S Posted on 2012-02-11 14:45:27.0Z
From: "Mike S" <M@M.com>
Subject: Re: Building my own Datawindow engine? Ist there a license/patent pitfall?
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <4f339400$1@forums-1-dub> <n478j7dtr731i9tj0asqpk0imk7n2pdt8l@4ax.com> <4f341fb6$1@forums-1-dub> <4f3550fc$1@forums-1-dub>
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It never went anywhere.

It was asked about again during the PB futures session at techwave
2011.

Roland Smith [TeamSybase] wrote:

> I asked about that once several years ago. I was told that there was
> the capability to embed the DW Painter into your app but you had to
> contact Sue directly to ask about the license terms and the technical
> info on how it is done. I didn't follow up so I don't know more than
> that.
>
> "Brad Wery [TeamSybase]" <bradwery@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4f341fb6$1@forums-1-dub...
> > There was once talks about making the DW painter a control that
> > could be added to your PB application. Has this idea been
> > abandoned?
> >
> > Brad Wery
> >
> > http://www.powertothebuilder.com
> > http://www.facebook.com/powertothebuilder
> > http://www.twitter.com/PowerbuilderGUI
> >
> > On 2/9/2012 1:22 PM, Reed Shilts [Sybase] wrote:
> > > There are numerous patents covering DataWindow technology.
> > > For anything further you would have to contact a lawyer - which
> > > nobody in the NG is qualified to answer.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > > Reed Shilts
> > > <Standard-Disclaimers-Apply/>
> > >
> >>On 9 Feb 2012 01:38:08 -0800, Benjamin Kemner<no@spam.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can
> > > > handle original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase?
> > > > I think Appeon do stuff like this. Do they have a special
> > > > contract to Sybase or is the Datawindow source an "open"
> > > > specification. The same idea for PowerScript.
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > >

--


mybad Posted on 2012-02-10 00:50:03.0Z
From: mybad <mybad@anywhere.com>
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Subject: Re: Building my own Datawindow engine? Ist there a license/patent pitfall?
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I'm curious what possibly could be patented on a dw? I was told quite a
long time ago by a lawyer that computing technology could not be
patented and at best loosely falls under Intellectual Property legalese.
Case in point is nobody owns word processing or spreadsheet abilities or
derivatives thereof.

So the dw technically is nothing more than a better constructed MS grid
control. If that is the case why would it be illegal for the OP to build
something even better?

I know for a fact my competitors were "enlightened" by things my app did
and surprise surprise those items found their way into the next version.
There is nothing I can do and this happens all the time in the software
world.

On 09/02/2012 2:22 PM, Reed Shilts [Sybase] wrote:
> There are numerous patents covering DataWindow technology.
> For anything further you would have to contact a lawyer - which nobody
> in the NG is qualified to answer.
>
> HTH,
> Reed Shilts
> <Standard-Disclaimers-Apply/>
>
> On 9 Feb 2012 01:38:08 -0800, Benjamin Kemner<no@spam.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
>> original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon
>> do stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
>> Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for PowerScript.
>>
>> regards
>


Bruce Armstrong Posted on 2012-02-10 03:51:18.0Z
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Subject: Re: Building my own Datawindow engine? Ist there a license/patent pitfall?
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I take it the lawyer you were talking to is not a patent lawyer. There are
patent wars going on right now, and the courts seem to be of the opinion
that the patents are quite valid:

http://m.extremetech.com/extremetech/#!/entry/the-patent-war-is-it-killing-innovation,4eaec63810c8d4cd6e000002

http://articles.boston.com/2011-12-26/business/30559491_1_taiwanese-phone-maker-htc-android-phones-android-software

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/google-motorola-mobility_n_927670.html

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/26/138576167/when-patents-attack

That last article explains the history a bit....

mybad <mybad@anywhere.com> wrote:
> I'm curious what possibly could be patented on a dw? I was told quite a
> long time ago by a lawyer that computing technology could not be patented
> and at best loosely falls under Intellectual Property legalese. Case in
> point is nobody owns word processing or spreadsheet abilities or derivatives thereof.
>
> So the dw technically is nothing more than a better constructed MS grid
> control. If that is the case why would it be illegal for the OP to build
> something even better?
>
> I know for a fact my competitors were "enlightened" by things my app did
> and surprise surprise those items found their way into the next version.
> There is nothing I can do and this happens all the time in the software world.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 09/02/2012 2:22 PM, Reed Shilts [Sybase] wrote:
>> There are numerous patents covering DataWindow technology.
>> For anything further you would have to contact a lawyer - which nobody
>> in the NG is qualified to answer.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Reed Shilts
>> <Standard-Disclaimers-Apply/>
>>
>> On 9 Feb 2012 01:38:08 -0800, Benjamin Kemner<no@spam.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
>>> original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon
>>> do stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
>>> Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for PowerScript.
>>>
>>> regards
>>


mybad Posted on 2012-02-10 05:45:14.0Z
From: mybad <mybad@anywhere.com>
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Subject: Re: Building my own Datawindow engine? Ist there a license/patent pitfall?
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I did intentionally say it was a long time ago that I talked to him
because I know times have changed. I'm sure he would definitely have a
different answer now I'm sure and iirc being small town he was a jack of
all laws, master of none<g>

I just don't see how patenting helps joe users like ourselves in our
little world today....unlike the multi-billion world where these
lawsuits are being played out. The OP's question flashed me back to that
original discussion.

On 09/02/2012 10:51 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
> I take it the lawyer you were talking to is not a patent lawyer. There are
> patent wars going on right now, and the courts seem to be of the opinion
> that the patents are quite valid:
>
> http://m.extremetech.com/extremetech/#!/entry/the-patent-war-is-it-killing-innovation,4eaec63810c8d4cd6e000002
>
> http://articles.boston.com/2011-12-26/business/30559491_1_taiwanese-phone-maker-htc-android-phones-android-software
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/google-motorola-mobility_n_927670.html
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/26/138576167/when-patents-attack
>
> That last article explains the history a bit....
>
> mybad<mybad@anywhere.com> wrote:
>> I'm curious what possibly could be patented on a dw? I was told quite a
>> long time ago by a lawyer that computing technology could not be patented
>> and at best loosely falls under Intellectual Property legalese. Case in
>> point is nobody owns word processing or spreadsheet abilities or derivatives thereof.
>>
>> So the dw technically is nothing more than a better constructed MS grid
>> control. If that is the case why would it be illegal for the OP to build
>> something even better?
>>
>> I know for a fact my competitors were "enlightened" by things my app did
>> and surprise surprise those items found their way into the next version.
>> There is nothing I can do and this happens all the time in the software world.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/02/2012 2:22 PM, Reed Shilts [Sybase] wrote:
>>> There are numerous patents covering DataWindow technology.
>>> For anything further you would have to contact a lawyer - which nobody
>>> in the NG is qualified to answer.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>> Reed Shilts
>>> <Standard-Disclaimers-Apply/>
>>>
>>> On 9 Feb 2012 01:38:08 -0800, Benjamin Kemner<no@spam.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
>>>> original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon
>>>> do stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
>>>> Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for PowerScript.
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-02-10 12:33:39.0Z
From: "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com>
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Subject: Re: Building my own Datawindow engine? Ist there a license/patent pitfall?
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Hi Reed;

I thought that Kim's DW patent had expired?

--
Regards ... Chris
President: STD Inc./ OSUG
VP ISUG - Membership
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass

"Reed Shilts [Sybase]" <reed dot shilts at sybase dot com> wrote in message
news:n478j7dtr731i9tj0asqpk0imk7n2pdt8l@4ax.com...
> There are numerous patents covering DataWindow technology.
> For anything further you would have to contact a lawyer - which nobody
> in the NG is qualified to answer.
>
> HTH,
> Reed Shilts
> <Standard-Disclaimers-Apply/>
>
> On 9 Feb 2012 01:38:08 -0800, Benjamin Kemner <no@spam.de> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
>>original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon
>>do stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
>>Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for PowerScript.
>>
>>regards
>


Yakov Posted on 2012-03-13 23:29:06.0Z
From: Yakov <nospam.yakov@yakovwerde.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
Subject: Re: Building my own Datawindow engine? Ist there a license/patent pitfall?
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http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5566330.html

On 9 Feb 2012 01:38:08 -0800, Benjamin Kemner <no@spam.de> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>if I had the idea to code my own Datawindow engine that can handle
>original PB-Datawindow source, is it allowed by Sybase? I think Appeon
>do stuff like this. Do they have a special contract to Sybase or is the
>Datawindow source an "open" specification. The same idea for PowerScript.
>
>regards