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Open Source PB

12 posts in PB Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2012-03-30 17:03:55.0Z
Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-03-29 17:44:54.0Z
From: Chris Pollach <cpollach@travel-net.com>
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Subject: Open Source PB
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Hi Everyone;

Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder
like MS just did ...
http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx

???

--
Regards ... Chris
President: OSUG / STD Inc.
Vice President: ISUG
Blog: http://chrispollach.blogspot.com
SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stdfndclass
PBDJ: http://chrispollach.sys-con.com


Brad Wery [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-03-29 18:29:23.0Z
From: "Brad Wery [TeamSybase]" <bradwery@gmail.com>
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Article PK: 452686

Note that it was MVC that was open sourced. Sybase did something similar
when they open sourced PFC.


Brad Wery

http://www.powertothebuilder.com
http://www.facebook.com/powertothebuilder
http://www.twitter.com/PowerbuilderGUI

On 3/29/2012 12:44 PM, Chris Pollach wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone;
>
> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder like
> MS just did ...
> http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>
> ???
>


Bruce Armstrong Posted on 2012-03-29 18:32:11.0Z
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Subject: Re: Open Source PB
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We have that;

pfc.codeplex.com

Chris Pollach <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
> Hi Everyone;
>
> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder like
> MS just did ... http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>
> ???


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-03-29 19:01:42.0Z
From: Chris Pollach <cpollach@travel-net.com>
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Subject: Re: Open Source PB
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Hi Bruce;

I wasn't talking about the PFC ... instead, PB as a whole. For
example, creating API's for the IDE might be a good start or opening up
ORCA fully to let any PB developer extend PB's functionality and/or
productivity.

BTW: ADS Online that Dave Litwack worked on before he designed the
original prototype of PowerBuilder at Cullinet (originally called
GoldenGate-II ad then ADS-PC) was going to use the IDE API concept that
the ADS-Online / IDMS products already had.

Regards ... Chris

On 3/29/2012 2:32 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
> We have that;
>
> pfc.codeplex.com
>
>
> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>> Hi Everyone;
>>
>> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder like
>> MS just did ... http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>>
>> ???


Bruce Armstrong Posted on 2012-03-29 20:55:25.0Z
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Subject: Re: Open Source PB
References: <1017299977354737242.493002NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f74b196$1@forums-1-dub>
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Article PK: 452689

Then you misunderstand what Microsoft is doing. They open sourced a
framework used to write asp.net applications, not asp.net itself.

And creating APIs for the IDE isn't the same thing as open sourcing the
IDE.

You want to write plugins for the IDE? You can, at least with PB.Net.

Chris Pollach <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
> Hi Bruce;
>
> I wasn't talking about the PFC ... instead, PB as a whole. For example,
> creating API's for the IDE might be a good start or opening up ORCA fully
> to let any PB developer extend PB's functionality and/or productivity.
>
> BTW: ADS Online that Dave Litwack worked on before he designed the
> original prototype of PowerBuilder at Cullinet (originally called
> GoldenGate-II ad then ADS-PC) was going to use the IDE API concept that
> the ADS-Online / IDMS products already had.
>
> Regards ... Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/29/2012 2:32 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>> We have that;
>>
>> pfc.codeplex.com
>>
>>
>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Everyone;
>>>
>>> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder like
>>> MS just did ... http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>>>
>>> ???


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-03-30 11:28:48.0Z
From: Chris Pollach <cpollach@travel-net.com>
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Subject: Re: Open Source PB
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MS added an "ASP.NET Web API" for this. I was not thinking of a
plug-in though.

I was thinking for example an API exit that the IDE would call on
"object save" where a user written routine could review source code to
check for standards. Another "user "exit" could be invoked on "New
Event/Function where a user routine could automatically supply a header
comment block. Another UE could be invoked on new User Object and handle
some configuration for being an SAP interface, etc, etc.

Once people start writing User Exit objects for the PB IDE, then
Sybase could create a "UE Repository" like CodeXchange where collections
of UE routines could be made available to the user community to
enhance/extend the IDE experience.

I would suggest that all UE's would be written in PBScript and
compiled into a PBD / DLL to make it easier for any developer to develop
a UE.

Food for thought. :-)

On 3/29/2012 4:55 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
> Then you misunderstand what Microsoft is doing. They open sourced a
> framework used to write asp.net applications, not asp.net itself.
>
> And creating APIs for the IDE isn't the same thing as open sourcing the
> IDE.
>
> You want to write plugins for the IDE? You can, at least with PB.Net.
>
> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>> Hi Bruce;
>>
>> I wasn't talking about the PFC ... instead, PB as a whole. For example,
>> creating API's for the IDE might be a good start or opening up ORCA fully
>> to let any PB developer extend PB's functionality and/or productivity.
>>
>> BTW: ADS Online that Dave Litwack worked on before he designed the
>> original prototype of PowerBuilder at Cullinet (originally called
>> GoldenGate-II ad then ADS-PC) was going to use the IDE API concept that
>> the ADS-Online / IDMS products already had.
>>
>> Regards ... Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/29/2012 2:32 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>>> We have that;
>>>
>>> pfc.codeplex.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Everyone;
>>>>
>>>> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder like
>>>> MS just did ... http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>>>>
>>>> ???


Roland Smith [TeamSybase] Posted on 2012-03-30 12:00:57.0Z
From: "Roland Smith [TeamSybase]" <rsmith@trusthss.com>
Newsgroups: sybase.public.powerbuilder.futures.discussion
References: <1017299977354737242.493002NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f74b196$1@forums-1-dub> <1214426360354747181.302459NOCANSPAM_bruce.armstrong-yahoo.com@forums.sybase.com> <4f7598f0@forums-1-dub>
Subject: Re: Open Source PB
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What they should have done instead of using Visual Studio for PB.Net was to
re-write the Classic IDE entirely in PowerBuilder (I know some of it already
is) and open that up to user participation.

"Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:4f7598f0@forums-1-dub...
>
> MS added an "ASP.NET Web API" for this. I was not thinking of a plug-in
> though.
>
> I was thinking for example an API exit that the IDE would call on
> "object save" where a user written routine could review source code to
> check for standards. Another "user "exit" could be invoked on "New
> Event/Function where a user routine could automatically supply a header
> comment block. Another UE could be invoked on new User Object and handle
> some configuration for being an SAP interface, etc, etc.
>
> Once people start writing User Exit objects for the PB IDE, then Sybase
> could create a "UE Repository" like CodeXchange where collections of UE
> routines could be made available to the user community to enhance/extend
> the IDE experience.
>
> I would suggest that all UE's would be written in PBScript and compiled
> into a PBD / DLL to make it easier for any developer to develop a UE.
>
> Food for thought. :-)
>
>
>
>
> On 3/29/2012 4:55 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>> Then you misunderstand what Microsoft is doing. They open sourced a
>> framework used to write asp.net applications, not asp.net itself.
>>
>> And creating APIs for the IDE isn't the same thing as open sourcing the
>> IDE.
>>
>> You want to write plugins for the IDE? You can, at least with PB.Net.
>>
>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Bruce;
>>>
>>> I wasn't talking about the PFC ... instead, PB as a whole. For
>>> example,
>>> creating API's for the IDE might be a good start or opening up ORCA
>>> fully
>>> to let any PB developer extend PB's functionality and/or productivity.
>>>
>>> BTW: ADS Online that Dave Litwack worked on before he designed the
>>> original prototype of PowerBuilder at Cullinet (originally called
>>> GoldenGate-II ad then ADS-PC) was going to use the IDE API concept that
>>> the ADS-Online / IDMS products already had.
>>>
>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/29/2012 2:32 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>>>> We have that;
>>>>
>>>> pfc.codeplex.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Everyone;
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder
>>>>> like
>>>>> MS just did ...
>>>>> http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>> ???
>


Benjamin Kemner Posted on 2012-03-30 14:54:45.0Z
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Subject: Re: Open Source PB
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Why to open source PB? It is all there!

We have Orca and have coffe machines. Let's code our own IDE!

regards

Am 30.03.2012 14:09, schrieb Chris Pollach:

>
> YEAH BABY, YEAH ... now your talking my language!!!!!!!!!!! :-)
>
> FWIW: I don't think it would be hard in PB Classic today as you are
> correct in that parts of the IDE are written in PB (for quite some time
> now).
>
>
> On 3/30/2012 8:00 AM, Roland Smith [TeamSybase] wrote:
>> What they should have done instead of using Visual Studio for PB.Net
>> was to
>> re-write the Classic IDE entirely in PowerBuilder (I know some of it
>> already
>> is) and open that up to user participation.
>>
>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f7598f0@forums-1-dub...
>>>
>>> MS added an "ASP.NET Web API" for this. I was not thinking of a plug-in
>>> though.
>>>
>>> I was thinking for example an API exit that the IDE would call on
>>> "object save" where a user written routine could review source code to
>>> check for standards. Another "user "exit" could be invoked on "New
>>> Event/Function where a user routine could automatically supply a header
>>> comment block. Another UE could be invoked on new User Object and handle
>>> some configuration for being an SAP interface, etc, etc.
>>>
>>> Once people start writing User Exit objects for the PB IDE, then Sybase
>>> could create a "UE Repository" like CodeXchange where collections of UE
>>> routines could be made available to the user community to enhance/extend
>>> the IDE experience.
>>>
>>> I would suggest that all UE's would be written in PBScript and compiled
>>> into a PBD / DLL to make it easier for any developer to develop a UE.
>>>
>>> Food for thought. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/29/2012 4:55 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>>>> Then you misunderstand what Microsoft is doing. They open sourced a
>>>> framework used to write asp.net applications, not asp.net itself.
>>>>
>>>> And creating APIs for the IDE isn't the same thing as open sourcing the
>>>> IDE.
>>>>
>>>> You want to write plugins for the IDE? You can, at least with PB.Net.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Bruce;
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't talking about the PFC ... instead, PB as a whole. For
>>>>> example,
>>>>> creating API's for the IDE might be a good start or opening up ORCA
>>>>> fully
>>>>> to let any PB developer extend PB's functionality and/or productivity.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW: ADS Online that Dave Litwack worked on before he designed the
>>>>> original prototype of PowerBuilder at Cullinet (originally called
>>>>> GoldenGate-II ad then ADS-PC) was going to use the IDE API concept
>>>>> that
>>>>> the ADS-Online / IDMS products already had.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/29/2012 2:32 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>>>>>> We have that;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pfc.codeplex.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Everyone;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> MS just did ...
>>>>>>> http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ???
>>>
>>
>>


Bruce Armstrong Posted on 2012-03-30 16:00:00.0Z
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Subject: Re: Open Source PB
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Article PK: 452696

I guess I couldn't disagree more. I don't think it's a coincidence that
interest in PowerBuilder has picked up since PowerBuilder embraced .Net.
It showed the market that product management was forward thinking.
Doubling down on being a niche proprietary tool would have (IMHO) just
accelerated the decline of the product.

"Roland Smith [TeamSybase]" <rsmith@trusthss.com> wrote:
> What they should have done instead of using Visual Studio for PB.Net was to
> re-write the Classic IDE entirely in PowerBuilder (I know some of it already
> is) and open that up to user participation.
>
> "Chris Pollach" <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
> news:4f7598f0@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> MS added an "ASP.NET Web API" for this. I was not thinking of a plug-in
>> though.
>>
>> I was thinking for example an API exit that the IDE would call on
>> "object save" where a user written routine could review source code to
>> check for standards. Another "user "exit" could be invoked on "New
>> Event/Function where a user routine could automatically supply a header
>> comment block. Another UE could be invoked on new User Object and handle
>> some configuration for being an SAP interface, etc, etc.
>>
>> Once people start writing User Exit objects for the PB IDE, then Sybase
>> could create a "UE Repository" like CodeXchange where collections of UE
>> routines could be made available to the user community to enhance/extend
>> the IDE experience.
>>
>> I would suggest that all UE's would be written in PBScript and compiled
>> into a PBD / DLL to make it easier for any developer to develop a UE.
>>
>> Food for thought. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/29/2012 4:55 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>>> Then you misunderstand what Microsoft is doing. They open sourced a
>>> framework used to write asp.net applications, not asp.net itself.
>>>
>>> And creating APIs for the IDE isn't the same thing as open sourcing the
>>> IDE.
>>>
>>> You want to write plugins for the IDE? You can, at least with PB.Net.
>>>
>>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Bruce;
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't talking about the PFC ... instead, PB as a whole. For
>>>> example,
>>>> creating API's for the IDE might be a good start or opening up ORCA
>>>> fully
>>>> to let any PB developer extend PB's functionality and/or productivity.
>>>>
>>>> BTW: ADS Online that Dave Litwack worked on before he designed the
>>>> original prototype of PowerBuilder at Cullinet (originally called
>>>> GoldenGate-II ad then ADS-PC) was going to use the IDE API concept that
>>>> the ADS-Online / IDMS products already had.
>>>>
>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/29/2012 2:32 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>>>>> We have that;
>>>>>
>>>>> pfc.codeplex.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Everyone;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> MS just did ...
>>>>>> http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ???
>>


Chris Pollach Posted on 2012-03-30 16:58:23.0Z
From: Chris Pollach <cpollach@travel-net.com>
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I respectfully disagree ...

I think many people saw the "PB IS .NET" marketing and *assumed* that
it meant that PB.Net could do "Mobile", "Console", "Service", "Win32",
and/or "Web" (ASP.net) based Target solutions. Now that they see that
PB.NET can *only* do WPF and its WCF - while it does work - won't scale
when deployed as a web service, etc. I think that many people who
upgraded are now really scratching their heads on what then can really
do with PB.net. All I see right now from the usability POV is DW.Net
replacement.

Unless Sybase can address the above limitations - I can not see many
people adopting PB.Net for new applications and I highly doubt any
current PB Classic applications can see any ROI on migrating to PB.Net.

PS: Oh yeah, no tablet or smart phone deployment either for PB.net
(even in v15's roadmap). While Appeon does support full web today and
Appeon Mobile will give us PB to iOS and Android applications this year
- Appeon *only* works with PB Classic.

So for my money - PB Classic holds the trump cards in the IT card
hand at the moment. I think that Sybase needs to get back to PB classic
and move forward from there. I agree with Roland! :-)

On 3/30/2012 12:00 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
> I guess I couldn't disagree more. I don't think it's a coincidence that
> interest in PowerBuilder has picked up since PowerBuilder embraced .Net.
> It showed the market that product management was forward thinking.
> Doubling down on being a niche proprietary tool would have (IMHO) just
> accelerated the decline of the product.
>
> "Roland Smith [TeamSybase]"<rsmith@trusthss.com> wrote:
>> What they should have done instead of using Visual Studio for PB.Net was to
>> re-write the Classic IDE entirely in PowerBuilder (I know some of it already
>> is) and open that up to user participation.
>>
>> "Chris Pollach"<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f7598f0@forums-1-dub...
>>>
>>> MS added an "ASP.NET Web API" for this. I was not thinking of a plug-in
>>> though.
>>>
>>> I was thinking for example an API exit that the IDE would call on
>>> "object save" where a user written routine could review source code to
>>> check for standards. Another "user "exit" could be invoked on "New
>>> Event/Function where a user routine could automatically supply a header
>>> comment block. Another UE could be invoked on new User Object and handle
>>> some configuration for being an SAP interface, etc, etc.
>>>
>>> Once people start writing User Exit objects for the PB IDE, then Sybase
>>> could create a "UE Repository" like CodeXchange where collections of UE
>>> routines could be made available to the user community to enhance/extend
>>> the IDE experience.
>>>
>>> I would suggest that all UE's would be written in PBScript and compiled
>>> into a PBD / DLL to make it easier for any developer to develop a UE.
>>>
>>> Food for thought. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/29/2012 4:55 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>>>> Then you misunderstand what Microsoft is doing. They open sourced a
>>>> framework used to write asp.net applications, not asp.net itself.
>>>>
>>>> And creating APIs for the IDE isn't the same thing as open sourcing the
>>>> IDE.
>>>>
>>>> You want to write plugins for the IDE? You can, at least with PB.Net.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Bruce;
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't talking about the PFC ... instead, PB as a whole. For
>>>>> example,
>>>>> creating API's for the IDE might be a good start or opening up ORCA
>>>>> fully
>>>>> to let any PB developer extend PB's functionality and/or productivity.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW: ADS Online that Dave Litwack worked on before he designed the
>>>>> original prototype of PowerBuilder at Cullinet (originally called
>>>>> GoldenGate-II ad then ADS-PC) was going to use the IDE API concept that
>>>>> the ADS-Online / IDMS products already had.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/29/2012 2:32 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>>>>>> We have that;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pfc.codeplex.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Everyone;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> MS just did ...
>>>>>>> http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ???
>>>


Bruce Armstrong Posted on 2012-03-30 17:03:55.0Z
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Subject: Re: Open Source PB
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The "ASP.Net Web API" is another framework: http://www.asp.net/web-api.
Is still has nothing to do with what you are proposing.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it
means."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes?qt0482717

Chris Pollach <cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
> MS added an "ASP.NET Web API" for this. I was not thinking of a plug-in though.
>
> I was thinking for example an API exit that the IDE would call on
> "object save" where a user written routine could review source code to
> check for standards. Another "user "exit" could be invoked on "New
> Event/Function where a user routine could automatically supply a header
> comment block. Another UE could be invoked on new User Object and handle
> some configuration for being an SAP interface, etc, etc.
>
> Once people start writing User Exit objects for the PB IDE, then Sybase
> could create a "UE Repository" like CodeXchange where collections of UE
> routines could be made available to the user community to enhance/extend
> the IDE experience.
>
> I would suggest that all UE's would be written in PBScript and compiled
> into a PBD / DLL to make it easier for any developer to develop a UE.
>
> Food for thought. :-)
>
>
>
>
> On 3/29/2012 4:55 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>> Then you misunderstand what Microsoft is doing. They open sourced a
>> framework used to write asp.net applications, not asp.net itself.
>>
>> And creating APIs for the IDE isn't the same thing as open sourcing the
>> IDE.
>>
>> You want to write plugins for the IDE? You can, at least with PB.Net.
>>
>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Bruce;
>>>
>>> I wasn't talking about the PFC ... instead, PB as a whole. For example,
>>> creating API's for the IDE might be a good start or opening up ORCA fully
>>> to let any PB developer extend PB's functionality and/or productivity.
>>>
>>> BTW: ADS Online that Dave Litwack worked on before he designed the
>>> original prototype of PowerBuilder at Cullinet (originally called
>>> GoldenGate-II ad then ADS-PC) was going to use the IDE API concept that
>>> the ADS-Online / IDMS products already had.
>>>
>>> Regards ... Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/29/2012 2:32 PM, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>>>> We have that;
>>>>
>>>> pfc.codeplex.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Pollach<cpollach@travel-net.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Everyone;
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Sybase, how about trying something like this for PowerBuilder like
>>>>> MS just did ... http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/03/28/open-source-aspnet.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>> ???