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My request list

7 posts in Product Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2002-03-20 09:07:45.0Z
ddc Posted on 2002-03-18 15:37:41.0Z
From: ddc
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:41 -0500
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
Subject: My request list
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My request list :

1) Decent Admin GUI ( like O & M have ).
2) Better graphical performance monitoring tools ( I believe sybase
announced but never released something like that ).
3) A centralized database with backup information & fed by backupserver (
like O has ).
4) Backup/restore parts of a DB ( also like O ).
This ties in with 3 I believe as the 'load' part would have to be
intelligent enough to replay transactions for that part of the DB only.
5) function based indexes ( O & M ), bitmap indexes ( O )
5) add/recreate indexes without blocking table.
7) move object( table , index , partition ) function.
( preferably without blocking table )
8) a way to automatically compact tables , indexes during low db activity.
9) same thing with dbcc.
10) same thing with stats.
11) or why not all in one go ?

just my 11 eurocents,

ddc


Anthony Mandic Posted on 2002-03-19 03:21:51.0Z
Message-ID: <3C96AECF.8B6A1DDC@start.com.au>
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ddc wrote:
>
> My request list :
>
> 1) Decent Admin GUI ( like O & M have ).

This has been left to third party developers like Embarcado
(DBArtisan) to fill the void.

> 2) Better graphical performance monitoring tools ( I believe sybase
> announced but never released something like that ).

Q Diagnostics. Later called SDTC. I'm not sure what happened
to it but it looked promising.

> 3) A centralized database with backup information & fed by backupserver (
> like O has ).
> 4) Backup/restore parts of a DB ( also like O ).

Logical backups can be done thru BMC's SQL BackTrack.

> This ties in with 3 I believe as the 'load' part would have to be
> intelligent enough to replay transactions for that part of the DB only.
> 5) function based indexes ( O & M ), bitmap indexes ( O )

ASIQ has bitwise indexes which are better than bitmap ones.

> 5) add/recreate indexes without blocking table.
> 7) move object( table , index , partition ) function.

You'd need to specify this in more detail.

> ( preferably without blocking table )
> 8) a way to automatically compact tables , indexes during low db activity.
> 9) same thing with dbcc.
> 10) same thing with stats.
> 11) or why not all in one go ?

Some problems with this - how and when do you define low db
activity? Is it as soon as activity drops to zero? You may
not want to do this during the middle of the day. Also you
don't want to have this being done every night. Some setup
controls need to be in place. By the time you've configured
all that, you might as well be doing it as you normally do.

-am © 2002


Mike Harrold Posted on 2002-03-20 03:39:43.0Z
Subject: Re: My request list
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In article <3C96AECF.8B6A1DDC@start.com.au>,

Anthony Mandic <sp_am_block@start.com.au> wrote:
>
>ddc wrote:
>>
>> My request list :
>>
>> 1) Decent Admin GUI ( like O & M have ).
>
> This has been left to third party developers like Embarcado
> (DBArtisan) to fill the void.

Ah, but I'd like something that doesn't require that nasty Microsoft
virus to run it. At least the java version of Sybase Central manages
that.

/Mike


Anthony Mandic Posted on 2002-03-20 09:07:45.0Z
Message-ID: <3C985161.E10E3AC3@start.com.au>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:07:45 +1000
From: Anthony Mandic <sp_am_block@start.com.au>
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Mike Harrold wrote:

> > This has been left to third party developers like Embarcado
> > (DBArtisan) to fill the void.
>
> Ah, but I'd like something that doesn't require that nasty Microsoft
> virus to run it.

Who doesn't?

> At least the java version of Sybase Central manages that.

Yes. Others are also developing their own tools. Of course,
that sort of development really depends a lot on available
time and the skill of one person.

-am © 2002


ddc Posted on 2002-03-19 14:08:51.0Z
From: "ddc" <me@y.z>
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I believe that most of the things I wrote about are things that are around
in other RDBMSses and that Id like to have in my sybase toolbox.
I know its possible to live without them , or buy 3rd party , but having
them in the standard DBA toolbox would be nice...
I also didnt investigate how hard it would be to implement these ....

"Anthony Mandic" <sp_am_block@start.com.au> wrote in message
news:3C96AECF.8B6A1DDC@start.com.au...
> ddc wrote:
> >
> > My request list :
> >
> > 1) Decent Admin GUI ( like O & M have ).
>
> This has been left to third party developers like Embarcado
> (DBArtisan) to fill the void.

I dont think thats good enough for me, unless sybase offers it as part of an
ASE license.
I think a decent admin gui should be part of the featureset of an enterprise
class RDBMS , its not an extra like HA.

So my wish remains , a decent , enterprise class , administration gui ,
preferably centralized trough a web interface for easy accessability &
deployment.

>
> > 2) Better graphical performance monitoring tools ( I believe sybase
> > announced but never released something like that ).
>
> Q Diagnostics. Later called SDTC. I'm not sure what happened
> to it but it looked promising.
>

Last I heard the SDTC was abandoned and SY is going to depend on 3rd
parties....
Again , for me this should be part of the standard tools for an enterprise
class RDBMS , not an option & not a 3rd party product.....

> > 3) A centralized database with backup information & fed by backupserver
(
> > like O has ).
> > 4) Backup/restore parts of a DB ( also like O ).
>
> Logical backups can be done thru BMC's SQL BackTrack.
>

I know , but again , 3rd partie where at least something like O.s tablespace
recovery possibilities would be nice....
As far as I know O's system is able to figure out for itself what
transaction dump files it needs and then pick the transactions out of those
logfiles that it needs to reapply for that 'tablespace'
With filesystem support in ASE this is even more interesting as its easier
to rm a datafile , and getting it back quickly , without the need to reload
the entire database & then applying all of the tranlogfiles manually would
be nice I guess :-))))


> > This ties in with 3 I believe as the 'load' part would have to be
> > intelligent enough to replay transactions for that part of the DB only.
> > 5) function based indexes ( O & M ), bitmap indexes ( O )
>
> ASIQ has bitwise indexes which are better than bitmap ones.

I know , but again , ASIQ is separate, and its handy to have the flexibility
to add a BI index on 1 or 2 tables of your traditional RDBMS.

>
> > 5) add/recreate indexes without blocking table.
> > 7) move object( table , index , partition ) function.
>
> You'd need to specify this in more detail.

It would be handy to be able to move for example an index of one segment'
( and thus physical location , disk , whatever )
and onto another without interrupting access to the index & or table.
I guess this would mean some kind of 'logging' of all the changes that are
carried out during the creation of the index or so.

>
> > ( preferably without blocking table )
> > 8) a way to automatically compact tables , indexes during low db
activity.
> > 9) same thing with dbcc.
> > 10) same thing with stats.
> > 11) or why not all in one go ?
>
> Some problems with this - how and when do you define low db
> activity? Is it as soon as activity drops to zero? You may
> not want to do this during the middle of the day. Also you
> don't want to have this being done every night. Some setup
> controls need to be in place. By the time you've configured
> all that, you might as well be doing it as you normally do.
>

I agree that its not allways trivial , but it would be nice have.
In ASE 12.5 you can let ASE manage memory dynamically. But you dont have to.
In some cases it might be better to auto-manage these , in other cases you
want this done manually.
In sites where you manage a few big databases , you probably want to manage
this manually , but in other cases , when you have 500 ASE's running in
branch offices you might want to flick the auto switch.
( some of this stuff is probable already in ASA ... )
I think feasability would depend on how granular you can make these tasks,
but reorg can pick up where its left-off I believe , so some auto-reorg
would be the logical extention of that.
....and a good GUI might help a lot with the configurability part :-)

> -am © 2002


Anthony Mandic Posted on 2002-03-20 09:06:12.0Z
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ddc wrote:

> > > 1) Decent Admin GUI ( like O & M have ).
> >
> > This has been left to third party developers like Embarcado
> > (DBArtisan) to fill the void.
>
> I dont think thats good enough for me, unless sybase offers it as part of an
> ASE license.
> I think a decent admin gui should be part of the featureset of an enterprise
> class RDBMS , its not an extra like HA.

It also pushes up the price for the rest of us who don't use it.
The third party developers do a better job (but at a price) and
their tools can work against more than one backend.

> Last I heard the SDTC was abandoned and SY is going to depend on 3rd
> parties....
> Again , for me this should be part of the standard tools for an enterprise
> class RDBMS , not an option & not a 3rd party product.....

My response above applies here.

> I know , but again , 3rd partie where at least something like O.s tablespace
> recovery possibilities would be nice....
> As far as I know O's system is able to figure out for itself what
> transaction dump files it needs and then pick the transactions out of those
> logfiles that it needs to reapply for that 'tablespace'
> With filesystem support in ASE this is even more interesting as its easier
> to rm a datafile , and getting it back quickly , without the need to reload
> the entire database & then applying all of the tranlogfiles manually would
> be nice I guess :-))))

Part of it depends on how the database works. O's is quite different
to Sybase ASE.

> > ASIQ has bitwise indexes which are better than bitmap ones.
>
> I know , but again , ASIQ is separate, and its handy to have the flexibility
> to add a BI index on 1 or 2 tables of your traditional RDBMS.

If they ever merge ASE and ASIQ together we might see it. I don't
know what the future plans are. Some issues that arise with B-Tree
indexes suggest that other types may be desirable.

> It would be handy to be able to move for example an index of one segment'
> ( and thus physical location , disk , whatever )

Perhaps a generic move object command? Can be applied to any
object (data or index etc.). However, segments aren't as
popular nowadays.

> and onto another without interrupting access to the index & or table.
> I guess this would mean some kind of 'logging' of all the changes that are
> carried out during the creation of the index or so.

Well, the changes are always logged. It would be a matter of
copying the pages and applying any log activity afterwards.

> > Some problems with this - how and when do you define low db
> > activity?
>
> I agree that its not allways trivial , but it would be nice have.
> In ASE 12.5 you can let ASE manage memory dynamically. But you dont have to.
> In some cases it might be better to auto-manage these , in other cases you
> want this done manually.

Yes, as a DBA you'd want to exercise control over this.

> In sites where you manage a few big databases , you probably want to manage
> this manually , but in other cases , when you have 500 ASE's running in
> branch offices you might want to flick the auto switch.

Yes, but automated scripts could handle it just as easily.

> I think feasability would depend on how granular you can make these tasks,
> but reorg can pick up where its left-off I believe , so some auto-reorg
> would be the logical extention of that.

It could be part of the housekeeper. But you'd want to have
directives stored somewhere.

> ....and a good GUI might help a lot with the configurability part :-)

Depends on what's involved.

-am © 2002


Peter Weighill Posted on 2002-03-18 22:20:45.0Z
From: "Peter Weighill" <noemail@nothing>
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<ddc> wrote in message
news:78226F89C32B41CE0055D8E385256B80.0055D8FA85256B80@webforums...
> My request list :
>
> 1) Decent Admin GUI ( like O & M have ).

How about making Sybase Central Open Source?