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UDF

20 posts in Product Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2003-06-04 09:02:48.0Z
NG Posted on 2003-05-01 22:03:30.0Z
From: NG
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 18:03:30 -0400
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
Subject: UDF
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Article PK: 95434

Don't know if somebody has asked this question before, but is Sybase
planning to add user-defined function feature into ASE? I don't want to
use Java or something else, just pure ASE...


Bret Halford Posted on 2003-05-01 22:03:31.0Z
Message-ID: <3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com>
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 16:03:31 -0600
From: Bret Halford <bret@sybase.com>
Organization: Sybase, Inc.
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Article PK: 95431


NG wrote:
>
> Don't know if somebody has asked this question before, but is Sybase
> planning to add user-defined function feature into ASE? I don't want to
> use Java or something else, just pure ASE...

There *is* a user defined function feature in ASE, *but* it uses Java.
Since ASE now supports Java, the feature *is* pure ASE.

-bret


Pablo Sanchez Posted on 2003-05-01 23:01:11.0Z
Subject: Re: UDF
From: Pablo Sanchez <pablo@dev.null>
References: <87E8F78C7CEB181B00792BC085256D19.00792BE185256D19@webforums> <3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com>
Organization: High-Performance Database Engineering
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Article PK: 95433


Bret Halford <bret@sybase.com> wrote in news:3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com:

>
>
> NG wrote:
>>
>> Don't know if somebody has asked this question before, but is Sybase
>> planning to add user-defined function feature into ASE? I don't want to
>> use Java or something else, just pure ASE...
>
>
> There *is* a user defined function feature in ASE, *but* it uses Java.
> Since ASE now supports Java, the feature *is* pure ASE.

The poster's intent is: T-SQL. S/he doesn't want to understandably
learn a new language.
--
Pablo Sanchez, High-Performance Database Engineering
http://www.hpdbe.com


NG Posted on 2003-05-02 14:47:42.0Z
From: NG
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:47:42 -0400
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
Subject: Re: UDF
Message-ID: <1A999CB6288AAFFC005145BB85256D1A.008252E185256D19@webforums>
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Article PK: 95432

You are right on the first part, I was referring to T-SQL when I was saying
"pure ASE" - but I did say I didn't want Java, thought that was clear.

But the second part - not all organizations have installed (or purchased?)
the Java option, even though the individuals may or may not be familiare
with java. And one has to admit that Java still has its performance
concerns.


Rob Verschoor Posted on 2003-05-02 14:44:30.0Z
Reply-To: "Rob Verschoor" <rob@DO.NOT.SPAM.sypron.nl.REMOVE.THIS.DECOY>
From: "Rob Verschoor" <rob@DO.NOT.SPAM.sypron.nl.REMOVE.THIS.DECOY>
References: <87E8F78C7CEB181B00792BC085256D19.00792BE185256D19@webforums> <3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com> <Xns936EAC2C3EC20pingottpingottbah@192.138.151.106> <1A999CB6288AAFFC005145BB85256D1A.008252E185256D19@webforums>
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Article PK: 95435

<NG> wrote in message
news:1A999CB6288AAFFC005145BB85256D1A.008252E185256D19@webforums...
[...]

> And one has to admit that Java still has its performance
> concerns.
>

That's true, but pure-SQL functions might not always be as fast as
you'd think : when a pure-SQL function woudlk perform a select query
on a table, this query will be executed for every row in the result
set (or even for more rows, when the function is used in th
WHERE-clause). That's basically the performance effect of a
non-flattened subquery, and we know the sort of performance effect
these can have.

Don't get me wrong: I'd love to see pure-SQL functions in ASE.
Especially for things that don't require I/O, like custom formatting
or complex expressions, I'd really like to stick that in a function.

Rob V.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Verschoor

Certified Sybase Professional DBA for ASE 12.5/12.0/11.5/11.0
and Replication Server 12.5

Author of "The Complete Sybase ASE Quick Reference Guide"
Online orders accepted at http://www.sypron.nl/qr

mailto:rob@DO.NOT.SPAM.sypron.nl.REMOVE.THIS.DECOY
http://www.sypron.nl
Sypron B.V., P.O.Box 10695, 2501HR Den Haag, The Netherlands
-------------------------------------------------------------


Pablo Sanchez Posted on 2003-05-02 16:04:55.0Z
Subject: Re: UDF
From: Pablo Sanchez <pablo@dev.null>
References: <87E8F78C7CEB181B00792BC085256D19.00792BE185256D19@webforums> <3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com> <Xns936EAC2C3EC20pingottpingottbah@192.138.151.106> <1A999CB6288AAFFC005145BB85256D1A.008252E185256D19@webforums> <O7cgvqLEDHA.338@forums-2-dub>
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Article PK: 95438

"Rob Verschoor" <rob@DO.NOT.SPAM.sypron.nl.REMOVE.THIS.DECOY> wrote in
news:O7cgvqLEDHA.338@forums-2-dub:

> Don't get me wrong: I'd love to see pure-SQL functions in ASE.
> Especially for things that don't require I/O, like custom formatting
> or complex expressions, I'd really like to stick that in a function.

I agree 100% with the above. Somehow I perceive that someone at
Sybase said, we need UDF's and someone said, let's implement Java and
we can also have UDF's. Unfortunately, they forgot that ASE may be
administrated by folks that don't know Java.

Having said that, I don't know Java but do plan on learning it
relatively soon. It's just a language! :)
--
Pablo Sanchez, High-Performance Database Engineering
http://www.hpdbe.com


NG Posted on 2003-05-02 17:22:34.0Z
From: NG
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 13:22:34 -0400
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
Subject: Re: UDF
Message-ID: <3FC9E45AE2C682F5005F731C85256D1A.005D3E5A85256D1A@webforums>
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Article PK: 95437

The real point is, when all the other major database vendors have this
feature and Sybase doesn't, Sybase is at a disadvantage, so do Sybase's
customers. Knowing Java or not is not the point. It should be the choice
the customers to make.

Remember when Sybase insisted on that row-level locking wasn't necessary?
Well we all know what happened because of that kind of mindset. I'm not
trying to compare UDF with RLL, but I would argue that most Sybase
customers would like to see UDF implemented in T-SQL, and, correct me if
I'm wrong, it's unlikely it would take such a huge effort to make it
happen.


Ilya Zvyagin Posted on 2003-05-05 10:01:01.0Z
Reply-To: "Ilya Zvyagin" <masterziv@mail.ru>
From: "Ilya Zvyagin" <masterziv@mail.ru>
References: <87E8F78C7CEB181B00792BC085256D19.00792BE185256D19@webforums> <3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com>
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Article PK: 95440

Hello, Bret!
You wrote on Thu, 01 May 2003 16:03:31 -0600:

BH> There *is* a user defined function feature in ASE, *but* it uses Java.
BH> Since ASE now supports Java, the feature *is* pure ASE.

Another problem is that Java is only for additional money, so,
in basic supply, there is no UDF in ASE. In many other DBMS, UDFs are
in they core.

--------------------
Ilya Zvyagin, First Container Terminal of SPb Sea Port
E-mail: masterziv@*KILLSPAM*mail.ru - include HP in subject
ICQ UID: 29427861(MasterZIV)


loyal_user Posted on 2003-05-06 10:21:26.0Z
From: loyal_user
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 06:21:26 -0400
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
Subject: Re: UDF
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References: <87E8F78C7CEB181B00792BC085256D19.00792BE185256D19@webforums> <3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com> <1052128861.655614@gatekeeper.fct.ru>
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Article PK: 95445

There is a *strong* request of adding T-SQL UDF in ASE in Sybase community
but Sybase decide to "ignore" it. If u take a look to MS-SQL, there is a
*lot* of T-SQL enhancements which are quite helpful to most SQL programmer
(table datatype, derived table, t-sql udf ) . Sybase t-SQL is much like a
stone-age product.

Last question, Is it a "mission impossible" to Sybase engineering to add
T-SQL UDF in ASE ?


NG Posted on 2003-05-06 16:39:10.0Z
From: NG
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 12:39:10 -0400
Newsgroups: sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion
Subject: Re: UDF
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Article PK: 95446

Has this issue been raised recently at TechWave or through ISUG?

I do believe if more people start making noise, Sybase would eventually
listen. Just hope it's not too late.


Eric Miner Posted on 2003-05-22 16:35:09.0Z
Message-ID: <3ECCFC3C.45274C1A@sybase.com>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:35:09 -0700
From: Eric Miner <eminer@sybase.com>
Organization: Sybase, Inc.
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CC: eminer@sybase.com
Subject: Re: UDF
References: <87E8F78C7CEB181B00792BC085256D19.00792BE185256D19@webforums> <3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com> <1052128861.655614@gatekeeper.fct.ru> <D53C18DDBE1D93260038E4E385256D1E.003C31B185256D1D@webforums>
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Article PK: 95473

Derived tables will be available 12.5.1.I'll see what I can find out about
UDFs

Eric

loyal_user wrote:

> There is a *strong* request of adding T-SQL UDF in ASE in Sybase community
> but Sybase decide to "ignore" it. If u take a look to MS-SQL, there is a
> *lot* of T-SQL enhancements which are quite helpful to most SQL programmer
> (table datatype, derived table, t-sql udf ) . Sybase t-SQL is much like a
> stone-age product.
>
> Last question, Is it a "mission impossible" to Sybase engineering to add
> T-SQL UDF in ASE ?


Andrew Schonberger Posted on 2003-05-16 11:48:14.0Z
Message-ID: <3EC4CFFE.2040702@iNOSPAM.nternode.on.net>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 21:48:14 +1000
From: Andrew Schonberger <andrewsc@iNOSPAM.nternode.on.net>
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Subject: Re: UDF
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Article PK: 95472

Java and T-SQL provide a different level of access to the database.
From a programmer's perspective, a major benefit of T-SQL is the
feeling of being "inside the database". In T-SQL we can write, for
example IF EXISTS (select) BEGIN... The same thing in Java would take
a query, which returns a result set, of which we scan the first row
only, then we close it, etc.

Tight integration with the database makes T-SQL still superior to
PL/SQL. It is a shame to see this advantage slip.

Andrew

Ilya Zvyagin wrote:

>Hello, Bret!
>You wrote on Thu, 01 May 2003 16:03:31 -0600:
>
> BH> There *is* a user defined function feature in ASE, *but* it uses Java.
> BH> Since ASE now supports Java, the feature *is* pure ASE.
>
>Another problem is that Java is only for additional money, so,
>in basic supply, there is no UDF in ASE. In many other DBMS, UDFs are
>in they core.
>
>--------------------
>Ilya Zvyagin, First Container Terminal of SPb Sea Port
>E-mail: masterziv@*KILLSPAM*mail.ru - include HP in subject
>ICQ UID: 29427861(MasterZIV)
>
>


Wolfgang Kunk Posted on 2003-05-23 09:50:01.0Z
Message-ID: <3ECDEEC9.4090109@gmx.de>
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:50:01 +0200
From: Wolfgang Kunk <wolfgang.kunk@gmx.de>
Organization: RTL Television
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Subject: Re: UDF
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Article PK: 95474

Hi,

I'm also of the opinion that T-SQL UDFs should be implemented to core ASE.
Java costs additional license fees and database developers are familiar
with T-SQL but not always with Java.
T-SQL UDFs can cover the basic demands. If I use more flicibility I
can 'upgrade' to Java!

Wolfgang Kunk
RTL Telvision

Ilya Zvyagin schrieb:

>Hello, Bret!
>You wrote on Thu, 01 May 2003 16:03:31 -0600:
>
> BH> There *is* a user defined function feature in ASE, *but* it uses Java.
> BH> Since ASE now supports Java, the feature *is* pure ASE.
>
>Another problem is that Java is only for additional money, so,
>in basic supply, there is no UDF in ASE. In many other DBMS, UDFs are
>in they core.
>
>--------------------
>Ilya Zvyagin, First Container Terminal of SPb Sea Port
>E-mail: masterziv@*KILLSPAM*mail.ru - include HP in subject
>ICQ UID: 29427861(MasterZIV)
>
>
>
>


Eugene Korolkov Posted on 2003-05-29 15:12:57.0Z
Message-ID: <3ED62379.ECDCB45C@davidsohn.com>
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:12:57 -0400
From: Eugene Korolkov <ekorolkov@davidsohn.com>
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To: Wolfgang Kunk <wolfgang.kunk@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: UDF
References: <87E8F78C7CEB181B00792BC085256D19.00792BE185256D19@webforums> <3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com> <1052128861.655614@gatekeeper.fct.ru> <3ECDEEC9.4090109@gmx.de>
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Article PK: 95492

Absolutely agree. I just do not understand why that
obvious question requires tons of discussions. Looks like Sybase
does not want to touch the core engine hoping that Java will cover everything.
I think it is very wrong attitude.

Regards,
Eugene

Wolfgang Kunk wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm also of the opinion that T-SQL UDFs should be implemented to core ASE.
> Java costs additional license fees and database developers are familiar
> with T-SQL but not always with Java.
> T-SQL UDFs can cover the basic demands. If I use more flicibility I
> can 'upgrade' to Java!
>
> Wolfgang Kunk
> RTL Telvision
>
> Ilya Zvyagin schrieb:
>
> >Hello, Bret!
> >You wrote on Thu, 01 May 2003 16:03:31 -0600:
> >
> > BH> There *is* a user defined function feature in ASE, *but* it uses Java.
> > BH> Since ASE now supports Java, the feature *is* pure ASE.
> >
> >Another problem is that Java is only for additional money, so,
> >in basic supply, there is no UDF in ASE. In many other DBMS, UDFs are
> >in they core.
> >
> >--------------------
> >Ilya Zvyagin, First Container Terminal of SPb Sea Port
> >E-mail: masterziv@*KILLSPAM*mail.ru - include HP in subject
> >ICQ UID: 29427861(MasterZIV)
> >
> >
> >
> >


Jan Zelenka Posted on 2003-06-03 13:20:30.0Z
From: "Jan Zelenka" <jan.zelenka@sybase.cz>
References: <87E8F78C7CEB181B00792BC085256D19.00792BE185256D19@webforums> <3EB199B3.D873DC6B@sybase.com> <1052128861.655614@gatekeeper.fct.ru> <3ECDEEC9.4090109@gmx.de> <3ED62379.ECDCB45C@davidsohn.com>
Subject: Re: UDF
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:20:30 +0200
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> Absolutely agree. I just do not understand why that
> obvious question requires tons of discussions. Looks like Sybase
> does not want to touch the core engine hoping that Java will cover
everything.
> I think it is very wrong attitude.

That's exactly what I think.
Java way was promising few years ago, but now it's obvious it's not the
killer app.
Sybase should start to enhance TSQL again. To name few features all others
have:
1. UDF
2. text, image datatype
3. array datatype

Regards
Jan Zelenka


Olivier Posted on 2003-06-03 15:52:10.0Z
From: "Olivier" <ociteau-NOCANSPAM@yahoo.fr>
Organization: 212.234.59.105
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So do i (i agree).

I thought that Sybase has text datatype already.
And it has "image" datatype.

Despite temporary table is a good workaround for aray, i agree with you on 3.

On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:20:30 +0200,
in sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion

Jan Zelenka <jan.zelenka@sybase.cz> wrote:
>> Absolutely agree. I just do not understand why that
>> obvious question requires tons of discussions. Looks like Sybase
>> does not want to touch the core engine hoping that Java will cover
>everything.
>> I think it is very wrong attitude.
>
>That's exactly what I think.
>Java way was promising few years ago, but now it's obvious it's not the
>killer app.
>Sybase should start to enhance TSQL again. To name few features all others
>have:
>1. UDF
>2. text, image datatype
>3. array datatype
>
>Regards
>Jan Zelenka
>
>

--
Olivier Citeau from Paris, France
posted via pfcguide.com


Stefan Goebel Posted on 2003-06-04 08:40:11.0Z
From: "Stefan Goebel" <s.goebel@dbap.de>
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Subject: Re: UDF
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Though I don't have anything new to say, I think that maybe if in this
thread a lot of people vote for UDF this may be awake Sybase...

I DEFINITELY vote for it !

A thousand times I damned the fact that there is no function like
"IsValidDate" or "IsValidNumber", so I have to use a cursor and call a quite
complicated procedure to do the job - UDF would be the best way here !


Hi Olivier !


"Olivier" <ociteau-NOCANSPAM@yahoo.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:OupEZgeKDHA.52@forums-2-dub...

> So do i (i agree).
>
> I thought that Sybase has text datatype already.
> And it has "image" datatype.

I guess, Jan means the image and text datatype for variables (so that you
can use them for stored proc parameters for example). Now you have to do the
same workaround as with array-parameters : using temporary tables.


>
> Despite temporary table is a good workaround for aray, i agree with you on
3.
>
...

I agree that it's not that important - but it would be easier to have an
array datatype


Best Regards,

Stefan.


Olivier Posted on 2003-06-04 09:02:48.0Z
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Gutten tag Stefan.

I do agree with you. In fact i wish UDF for the exact same reason as you
BUT, there is no use in voting here.
There are only 2 ways :
Through ISUG : http://www.isug.com/
Or through case XPress (http://case-express.sybase.com/)

I do not know which is better, but since i am not an ISUG member i will try
number 2.


On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:40:11 +0200,
in sybase.public.ase.product_futures_discussion

Stefan Goebel <s.goebel@dbap.de> wrote:
>Though I don't have anything new to say, I think that maybe if in this
>thread a lot of people vote for UDF this may be awake Sybase...
>
>I DEFINITELY vote for it !
>
>A thousand times I damned the fact that there is no function like
>"IsValidDate" or "IsValidNumber", so I have to use a cursor and call a quite
>complicated procedure to do the job - UDF would be the best way here !
>
>
>Hi Olivier !

--
Olivier Citeau from Paris, France
posted via pfcguide.com


MattR Posted on 2003-05-20 14:31:35.0Z
Message-ID: <2901034.1053441095@dbforums.com>
Subject: Re: UDF
From: MattR <member8@dbforums.com>
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I think there is a CR open to do this in T-SQL (like a stored proc or
trigger) but I am not sure. I seem to think this was an ASE15 release
option, but one of the devs could clear it up.

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


Mike Harrold Posted on 2003-05-21 16:36:47.0Z
Subject: Re: UDF
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In article <2901034.1053441095@dbforums.com>,

MattR <member8@dbforums.com> wrote:
>
>
>I think there is a CR open to do this in T-SQL (like a stored proc or
>trigger) but I am not sure. I seem to think this was an ASE15 release
>option, but one of the devs could clear it up.
>

ISUG members can vote on this enhancement request on the ISUG website
at http://www.isug.com. The enhancements section is in the members-only
section. The enhancement number is 9310_018.

Regards,

Mike Harrold
ISUG Membership Director
Email: mike@isug.com
Have your say on Product Enhancements;
Go to http://www.isug.com