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Oracle features... somehow available in Sybase?

5 posts in Product Futures Discussion Last posting was on 2002-03-31 16:44:01.0Z
Kai-Joachim Kamrath Posted on 2002-03-31 00:57:56.0Z
From: "Kai-Joachim Kamrath" <kaikamrath@nowhere.com>
Subject: Oracle features... somehow available in Sybase?
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:57:56 -0800
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Hi. Following are two features of Oracle which I'm finding sorely missing
in Sybase. Have I missed something? Is there a way to do this within
Sybase ASE?

1. Job scheduling. In Oracle, you can schedule jobs using the DBMS_JOB
package (a collection of stored procedures). Anything you can write within
a block of procedural code can be scheduled to run at whatever interval you
like. No need to go out to the O/S to run cron, AT or similar scheduling
tool... it's all within Oracle. Can Sybase do something similar?

2. Send e-mail. In Oracle (8i and later) you can send SMTP e-mail by
calling the UTL_SMTP package's procedures. You still need a mailhost to
relay the e-mail, but at least the code you write doesn't have to interact
with anything outside of the Oracle server.

If these features aren't natively available within ASE, what's commonly
done?

Thanks.


"joop" Posted on 2002-03-31 11:42:20.0Z
From: "joop" <joop(at)sybase(dot)com>
References: <mSFJcAF2BHA.204@forums.sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Oracle features... somehow available in Sybase?
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:42:20 +0200
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"Kai-Joachim Kamrath" <kaikamrath@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:mSFJcAF2BHA.204@forums.sybase.com...
> Hi. Following are two features of Oracle which I'm finding sorely
> missing in Sybase. Have I missed something? Is there a way to do
> this within Sybase ASE?
>
> 1. Job scheduling. In Oracle, you can schedule jobs using the
> DBMS_JOB package (a collection of stored procedures). Anything you
> can write within a block of procedural code can be scheduled to run
> at whatever interval you like. No need to go out to the O/S to run
> cron, AT or similar scheduling tool... it's all within Oracle. Can
> Sybase do something similar?

ASA yes ASE not yet

>
> 2. Send e-mail. In Oracle (8i and later) you can send SMTP e-mail
> by calling the UTL_SMTP package's procedures. You still need a
> mailhost to relay the e-mail, but at least the code you write
> doesn't have to interact with anything outside of the Oracle
> server.

on nt you can use the xp_sendmail esp's on unix you can use
xp_cmdshell

>
> If these features aren't natively available within ASE, what's
> commonly done?
>
> Thanks.
>
>

- --
joop

"It came from outer space, born in the heart of a sun"

Senior Consultant Sybase Professional Services
http://home.wanadoo.nl/species8472/
ICQ#:47048869
pgp key available

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Matt Posted on 2002-03-31 04:58:00.0Z
From: "Matt" <matt@fanhome.com>
References: <mSFJcAF2BHA.204@forums.sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Oracle features... somehow available in Sybase?
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:58:00 -0500
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These things, at least to me, seem contrary to the purpose of a RDBMS. I
think that's what keeps Sybase small, fast, scaleable, easy-to-work-with,
etc.. Is there a full-text indexer built in? Nope, it's a small add-on
module. Replication, backup, etc. -- all separate entities. I like this as
well since I can segregate the apps to different machines so I don't have to
have a behemoth big iron trying to handle all the load -- I can put one
thing on one box, EFTS on another, etc. It also allows me to have a bit
more fault tolerance as well -- I can put together two commodity linux boxen
and have two backup servers running. If I have a hardware failure on the
first box I can (manually since really changing a line of code isn't that
hard to do nor costly) failover to the second without paying for Rep Server
(currently out of our reach).

I don't like the idea of java-and-XML-in-the-DB but I can choose not to use
it. :)

I would like features like this, but at least from what I understand things
like that are what add to the 'bloat' of Oracle (8i requires what, 1GB or so
to install?).

However, I wouldn't be too adverse to a 'Sybase Scheduler' program which
uses CIS or whatnot to execute SQL (or stored procs, etc.) on your servers
throughout the enterprise. That way I could automate update index
statistics and / or backups without having to code cron jobs (and also
failure handling). Or also a mail extension as well since we send mailing
lists quite frequently from a table in the DB except we have to jump through
lots of hoops since our application programming language doesn't handle
sending mass amounts of mail very well. :(

But I would be very much opposed (not that we're major clients or anything
who can throw our weight around ;)) to adding new, questionable to the
mission of a RDBMS (and I think that's somewhat the vision of Sybase as
well) features. Separate products, of course, that would make me happy.

--
Matt

"Kai-Joachim Kamrath" <kaikamrath@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:mSFJcAF2BHA.204@forums.sybase.com...
> Hi. Following are two features of Oracle which I'm finding sorely missing
> in Sybase. Have I missed something? Is there a way to do this within
> Sybase ASE?
>
> 1. Job scheduling. In Oracle, you can schedule jobs using the DBMS_JOB
> package (a collection of stored procedures). Anything you can write
within
> a block of procedural code can be scheduled to run at whatever interval
you
> like. No need to go out to the O/S to run cron, AT or similar scheduling
> tool... it's all within Oracle. Can Sybase do something similar?
>
> 2. Send e-mail. In Oracle (8i and later) you can send SMTP e-mail by
> calling the UTL_SMTP package's procedures. You still need a mailhost to
> relay the e-mail, but at least the code you write doesn't have to interact
> with anything outside of the Oracle server.
>
> If these features aren't natively available within ASE, what's commonly
> done?
>
> Thanks.
>
>


Kai-Joachim Kamrath Posted on 2002-03-31 15:52:09.0Z
From: "Kai-Joachim Kamrath" <kaikamrath@nowhere.com>
References: <mSFJcAF2BHA.204@forums.sybase.com> <H$ItCBH2BHA.206@forums.sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Oracle features... somehow available in Sybase?
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:52:09 -0800
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I appreciate/understand your comments re the "bloat" in Oracle. The beast
is HUGE. And if you think 8i is huge at nearly 1 GB, just wait 'til you see
what they've done to 9i!

Here's my situation, and what makes having these things built into the RDBMS
helpful... I'm a consultant who is 500 to 2000 miles away from my clients'
databases and my only access to the servers on which the DBs reside is
specifically through Oracle's port 1521. I *never* access the OS command
line... nor do I even need to know which OS it is. (In fact, I don't even
have an OS account). I don't need to worry about which e-mail application
or scheduling tool they're running... all that is standard within Oracle.

I'm surprised that Sybase doesn't have job scheduling built in. It's such a
simple idea: At a given time, execute a given block of code; then re-submit
yourself given the defined interval. Easy.

"Matt" <matt@fanhome.com> wrote in message
news:H$ItCBH2BHA.206@forums.sybase.com...
> These things, at least to me, seem contrary to the purpose of a RDBMS. I
> think that's what keeps Sybase small, fast, scaleable, easy-to-work-with,
> etc.. Is there a full-text indexer built in? Nope, it's a small add-on
> module. Replication, backup, etc. -- all separate entities. I like this
as
> well since I can segregate the apps to different machines so I don't have
to
> have a behemoth big iron trying to handle all the load -- I can put one
> thing on one box, EFTS on another, etc. It also allows me to have a bit
> more fault tolerance as well -- I can put together two commodity linux
boxen
> and have two backup servers running. If I have a hardware failure on the
> first box I can (manually since really changing a line of code isn't that
> hard to do nor costly) failover to the second without paying for Rep
Server
> (currently out of our reach).
>
> I don't like the idea of java-and-XML-in-the-DB but I can choose not to
use
> it. :)
>
> I would like features like this, but at least from what I understand
things
> like that are what add to the 'bloat' of Oracle (8i requires what, 1GB or
so
> to install?).
>
> However, I wouldn't be too adverse to a 'Sybase Scheduler' program which
> uses CIS or whatnot to execute SQL (or stored procs, etc.) on your servers
> throughout the enterprise. That way I could automate update index
> statistics and / or backups without having to code cron jobs (and also
> failure handling). Or also a mail extension as well since we send mailing
> lists quite frequently from a table in the DB except we have to jump
through
> lots of hoops since our application programming language doesn't handle
> sending mass amounts of mail very well. :(
>
> But I would be very much opposed (not that we're major clients or anything
> who can throw our weight around ;)) to adding new, questionable to the
> mission of a RDBMS (and I think that's somewhat the vision of Sybase as
> well) features. Separate products, of course, that would make me happy.
>
> --
> Matt
>
> "Kai-Joachim Kamrath" <kaikamrath@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:mSFJcAF2BHA.204@forums.sybase.com...
> > Hi. Following are two features of Oracle which I'm finding sorely
missing
> > in Sybase. Have I missed something? Is there a way to do this within
> > Sybase ASE?
> >
> > 1. Job scheduling. In Oracle, you can schedule jobs using the DBMS_JOB
> > package (a collection of stored procedures). Anything you can write
> within
> > a block of procedural code can be scheduled to run at whatever interval
> you
> > like. No need to go out to the O/S to run cron, AT or similar
scheduling
> > tool... it's all within Oracle. Can Sybase do something similar?
> >
> > 2. Send e-mail. In Oracle (8i and later) you can send SMTP e-mail by
> > calling the UTL_SMTP package's procedures. You still need a mailhost to
> > relay the e-mail, but at least the code you write doesn't have to
interact
> > with anything outside of the Oracle server.
> >
> > If these features aren't natively available within ASE, what's commonly
> > done?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
>
>


Pablo Sanchez Posted on 2002-03-31 16:44:01.0Z
From: "Pablo Sanchez" <pablo@dev.null>
References: <mSFJcAF2BHA.204@forums.sybase.com> <H$ItCBH2BHA.206@forums.sybase.com> <rdQLA0M2BHA.204@forums.sybase.com>
Subject: Re: Oracle features... somehow available in Sybase?
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:44:01 -0700
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"Kai-Joachim Kamrath" <kaikamrath@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:rdQLA0M2BHA.204@forums.sybase.com...
>
> I'm surprised that Sybase doesn't have job scheduling built in.
It's such a
> simple idea: At a given time, execute a given block of code; then
re-submit
> yourself given the defined interval. Easy.

There's a line between letting the RDBMS do the above work (and others
of its class) and thus shield the application from the O/S specifics
and taking advantage of the O/S tools. Frankly, I think it's near
impossible to determine where that line ought to be.
--
Pablo Sanchez, High-Performance Database Engineering
www.hpdbe.com
Available for short-term and long-term contracts